Written by Christopher Kelly
April 20, 2015
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Julie: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Paleo Baby Podcast. I'm Julie Kelly. Today, I'm honored to be joined by Jessa Greenfield. She is the wife of fitness megastar Ben Greenfield. She is here today to talk to us about all things both being a mom and healthy living enthusiast and share some tips and tricks with us today. I'm really happy to have you, Jessa. Thanks for joining me.
Jessa: Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here.
Julie: So for those people who -- A lot of our audience also listens to Ben Greenfield podcast. You know Ben inside out. But not everybody knows you and knows your background and how you guys came to be and what you're all about. Would you mind sharing that with us?
Jessa: Sure. Well, before we had kids, we lived a "healthy lifestyle" but it was pretty standard. Nothing out of the ordinary, the low fat this, the granola there. It was your "normal healthy lifestyle". And I grew up with a good view of food my whole life. My mom and my family all grew up on a farm. So we had -- We always were connected to what we ate. I always had a very good knowledge of where food came from, what amount of work goes into growing food.
So I had a really good background in that respect. And I helped my dad on the farm. I did all the hard labor like bailing hay which nobody should ever do. It's gross. So I grew up doing that. And I had a good background there. I feel like overall growing up, I always had a pretty healthy outlook on food. And that made things definitely easier for me long term. When we had kids, I really -- I don't know what it is. It's probably the same way for a lot of women and dads.
You just really want to give your kids the absolute best chance at life opportunity, upbringing, whatever. And so I think it was when the boys were right around 18 months, Ben and I started out a conversation. I was like, "I really want to start a garden and I really want to like--" I was doing all this research on different kind of diets because I had my own struggles. I had migraines and I had this one. I think years of years of being an athlete, I had terrible skin.
I was just trying all these different, going at all these different roads. And I actually started the paleo diet before anybody even knew about it really. It was like, I don't know, probably even a year before we even had our kids. That was almost eight years ago. That was really a struggle because there was no information out there. There was no cookbooks. There was nothing out there. So you were literally just living on nuts and vegetables and meat.
Julie: Yeah, exactly.
Jessa: So I always had this interest. I knew that food heal was healing -- You'd heal your body through food. I truly believe that. But when we had kids, I really started delving in, especially when we were giving our kids their first solid, what's the best thing to do. I think every mom goes through this. They're like, "Should I fruit or should--"
Julie: Yeah. This kid has to eat. What the hell and I going to feed you?
Jessa: Yeah, exactly. So you have all these questions. And I'm really a doer. I jump like two feet in and just go for it. So that year, we decided to plant a garden and we raised beds and dug up half my yard and we just went for it. And then one thing just led to another and we just progressed. I feel like most people should. A lot of people just want change immediately. And I really don't think that's a healthy approach or a good long term approach.
And so, just over time, starting with our garden was really a big thing. We just started progressing and started going down different roads. I've done all kinds of things like I've done vegan diet. I've done the raw food diet. I've done paleo. I've done traditional foods. And what I really landed on is traditional foods, just focusing on where our food comes from, how it's been traditionally prepped, why is it so different now, and why we're dealing with all these physical ailments which I really believe is we've lost a lot of our history and a lot of our background of where food comes from and how it's intended to be handled.
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Julie: Yeah. Well, the connection too that you were talking about. I mean, growing up on a farm, I think, now, I look at that and I feel like that's probably a really lucky way to grow up. Automatically getting that connection to where your food comes from. Because now, working with people, helping them with their nutrition, the thing that I keep butting my head up against all the time is that people are getting to 35, 40 years old when their health is a mess. And that's when they have to develop their connection with food and figuring out where it comes from.
Jessa: Which is hard.
Julie: Yeah.
Jessa: Because they don't have -- They don't have that history or that background and so it means literally altering their entire lives. I mean, I felt like I went everywhere with that one. But really, yeah, I was going to say it all came back to the way I was raised in a lot of respects. And then also drawing upon, I guess, the history, my family history. They're all ranchers and home setters and stuff like that. Just drawing upon them and then reading a lot of books on how to ferment and how to sprout and how to do all those things.
Julie: Yeah. I mean, that's something I was going to ask you about. That's something we also run into lot is this question of which dogma do you follow. We've struggled with that for a long time. We hate to invoke the word paleo because it's very divisive but it's the simplest way of describing the way that we eat. But people ask me all the time what about Weston A. Price? What about this, that and the other thing? I'd love to hear your answer to this but, I think, what is sustainable is the way that you have to answer that question.
Jessa: That's the answer. And that's just it. It's funny because I tell Ben this all the time. My biggest beef with paleo is people order a lot of their food. It's not grown in their yard or a farmer who lives down the road from your or whatever. It's a lot coconut based stuff which is not entirely sustainable for a lot of us because I don't have any coconut trees growing in my yard or anywhere near my house. And so, to me, that isn't reflective of, A, the history of the people who lived here and how they ate or reflective of our community in a lot of ways. And so, that's my biggest, I would say, beef with the paleo diet is that it is not necessarily the most sustainable diet in a lot of ways.
Julie: Yeah. I mean, I think, also, I wonder about the sustainability in terms of -- Some of the other stuff that you're explaining, maybe you have advice for this, but when people look at Weston A. Price, for example, and they see the traditional methods are the sprouting and the fermenting and all that stuff, I mean, you're right. People are ordering a lot of their food. They're looking for more convenient ways of doing things.
And so I wonder if the same is true, trying to find that balance between, okay, I'm not going to sprout things. So it's probably that maybe I just don't eat them because those types of food -- Do you have any tips for how -- What do you tell people when they're saying, "I don't know if I can do this. It's really, really time consuming."
Jessa: Well, I'm pretty forthcoming about how we do. Like I said, this all kind of started for us about six years ago. I feel fortunate that we live in a place where we literally can drive down the road and the farms are right there. I mean, they're literally right there. Not everybody has it. I understand that completely. But, I guess, to me, for us and the way we started is, maybe you don't have a little plot of land but there's so many options right there now. You can join community gardens. You can support your local farmers by going to Farmers Market or buying, ordering quarter beef from people.
There's a lot of ways that you -- And I do use coconut oil and I do have some of those items but I don't use them regularly. It's finding out ways that you can really utilize your local economy and the people who are working hard and living amongst you, I guess, is the best way to do it. And I would say that's through the Farmers Markets, CSAs, contacting the growers directly. Because generally, you can get better deals if you get that way anyways. And then sourcing -- I mean, obviously, you don't have exotic spices growing here either but those things are pretty easily shippable.
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You know what I mean? They're not shipping huge boxes across the country and stuff like that. And people had been trading spices forever and stuff like that. Things like that, that's fine. Purchase that stuff from the store or from somebody from -- They have a great place in Oregon that has a lot of herbs and stuff like that. So we generally buy them from there. But it's finding just -- A lot of times you just have to do the research.
And I say take it one thing at a time. Let's say, you're focusing on where your meat is coming from. Then find a local grower and contact them. Generally, they'll give you a better price per pound if you contact them directly rather than going through your coop or something like that. And you just order a large amount of something and, honestly, I just let them cut it however they want because it challenges me to cook different cuts of meats and it turns it into a learning process for myself.
So it's not [0:11:19] [Indiscernible] sirloin steak and ground beef and crazy roast and livers and hearts and things. And that's another thing. A lot of times you get the organ meat almost literally free because nobody wants it. It's being willing to get creative and make it -- Just go at it with the thought process of I'm going to learn from this. There's something in here that I can take away. Not just sourcing my meat but I can learn how to cook heart of I can learn how to cook liver and actually enjoy it. Or maybe I'll hate it and now you figure that out.
Julie: Yeah. Sounds like my pork kidney experience.
Jessa: Your what?
Julie: Pork kidneys.
Jessa: Pork kidneys? I've done that. I do have those in my freezer though.
Julie: Yeah. I'm not a huge -- I'm not going to recommend you start that.
Jessa: No?
Julie: No. If you've got a dog, they make really good dog food.
Jessa: As you can see, I do have a dog. And a year later, I haven't used it yet. I will definitely give that to him. Yeah. Liver was a tough one for us.
Julie: Yeah. I think a lot of people struggle with organ meat. But I think your approach and what you've described here is really important and that's something that I try to get through to people too. I think it's about shifting of priorities. So when you decide that you want to live this way or you want to improve your lifestyle for your health, it's overwhelming. Because everything that we talked about, this is years of -- We've done it as well, like years of figuring this stuff out. It's not like we just woke up tomorrow and decided, "Okay, I'm going to eat--"
Jessa: Like, I'm going to homestead.
Julie: Yeah, right. Exactly. Good luck with that.
Jessa: Yeah.
Julie: It didn't happen for you overnight. It didn't happen for us overnight. We're not even homesteading. But I think the idea of shifting your priorities so that those decisions, those actions become -- You become really mindful of them and you put efforts towards them. You say, "Okay, today, I'm going to find a farmer who can supply me my vegetables at a good cost," or "Today, I'm going to figure out where our meat is coming from and how to get really good value but also really good quality and support a good farm." So I think that's really important that you bring that up and piecing it out that way. You have to start somewhere. You can't just do it all at once.
Jessa: Yeah. And I'm like it's interesting that you can get so creative with -- A couple of years ago, I was a part of a milk coop and once a month, one of us will have to drive out to this farm in the middle of nowhere and you would pick up all the milk for everyone. And then it was $3 a gallon or something ridiculous and cheap. But it's good, whole raw milk. But it was just a creative, a group of women getting together and saying we'll split up the driving time and the gas money and all that stuff.
You only have to go out once a month to get this stuff. And it was really fun actually for my kids too because they love going out there. She had chickens and cows and strawberry patches. It was a fun experience. I guess, going at things with a mindset that is going to be like painful and hard and miserable is the wrong mindset going to it. I really believe that you have to treat it like it could be really fun and eye opening and an experiment and great for your kids to see this stuff. It's really you got to come in with a good mentality too.
Julie: Yeah. Well, and making it work for your life too. With you living in the city and you can't, obviously, do the raw milk driving three hours. There's other ways of incorporating these experiences that you can figure out to fit your lifestyle right.
Jessa: Right.
Julie: We can all just--
Jessa: Yeah. It may not fit your lifestyle and then you come away with that.
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It's just being, yeah, open and having a good mindset towards it, that it's not going to be painful.
Julie: Right. An interesting topic to me right now, because Ivy, my daughter, is still young and we cannot jump the hurdle yet of entering -- We're planning on homeschooling and she'll obviously be involved in lot of community activities and things like that and there's lots of coops around here. A lot of kids do home school. But one of the things that we struggle with a lot is what to do and how to approach the subject of the way we live versus the way that most of the people that are around us live.
Jessa: Right. Like when she starts asking questions why we do this?
Julie: Yeah, why do we do this? But then also just how to handle it. Or even when I'm at the park. Because I send her with a sitter to the park a couple of hours a week. I send food with her because she's curious and she's into what other kids are doing and wants to know especially if it's a crinkly package, know what it is. How do you guys approach that and how have you approached that in terms of giving your kids free reign to decide how they eat, that kind of stuff?
Jessa: Well, regarding the food aspect of that question, at a very young age, we did really dictate -- No, I don't want to say dictate, but whatever we cooked is what they got to eat. I think that's really an important way to start off really young because they're such creatures of observation that when they see mommy and daddy eating certain things they're going to try certain things. And honestly, I didn't really give them options otherwise.
I'm not going to make three different dinners. I'm not just willing to do that, A. And, B, I don't think it's healthy for them to have those options all the time because I really don't think it is because then they, like you said, they're going to like -- I want them to try everything. And I will never tell my kids that they will never like anything. I let them try it first and then they can make up their own opinion. The same thing with the liver thing. They tried it. They decided they really didn't like it all that much and I was like, "Neither do I."
But I try to put my game face on and try it and then let them decide for themselves. But at a young age, everything was pretty much I made it, they ate it, we ate it. Everyone ate it together. And that's another thing. I think dinner time is really important for that. And also during that process, we just taught them. They are like, "You know, this kind of food, like sugar, it's going to make your brain foggy. You're going to be really, really overly excited and then you're going to crash."
And we just really have a lot of dialogues with them about what it does, like gluten and all those things, how it affects your body and why it's maybe not such a great idea to be eating it all the time, every meal, the main part of the meal, which is the American diet, in a nutshell really. Just really explaining to them how it affects their body, how it affects their minds, how it affects their growth. Do you want to be strong? Do you want to be tall? How food really makes up your body.
It's not just something that fills your tummy and tastes good. It actually is building your body. They have a very, very good handle on that. And so now, I'm at a point where I don't want to create all these rules and create all these forbidden fruits that they can't have. Because in my past experience, and I know Ben can say the same, is when there's a forbidden fruit, kids just want more. They will lie and they will sneak about it and that's just what happens.
I was the same way growing up. So was Ben. We all did that. Everything that was forbidden to us, the curiosity is just heightened. And so here's a perfect example. We were out picking pumpkins, I think, this year and the kids really wanted caramel apples. All the kids were running around with caramel apples and they wanted their caramel apple and I was like, okay. I was like, "Can we split one?" And they're like, "No, no, no. We want our own caramel apple."
And I was like, "Okay." So I bought them a caramel apple and they both got stomach aches. But it was a perfect way for them to learn because they actually had it and they saw the ramifications almost immediately. And it was a really good learning too. Now, my son won't even touch caramel apples. Yeah, if they understand, I tell them. I'm like, "Well, this is going to make your stomach upset. You're going to have a foggy brain and then you're going to be cranky."
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But they still want it and I was like, "Okay then, go for it." And they learn.
Julie: That is important though. I mean, just as important as knowing where your food comes from, I think, is knowing how your food makes you feel. And having that connection at a young age is just so much valuable than having to develop that as an adult.
Jessa: And you're not going to be there all the time either.
Julie: No.
Jessa: It's just like there is a point where you send your children off. I mean, whether it's camp or college or school whatever, there's a point where they're going to be approached with, or birthday party for that matter where some kids are going to be offering them cake or a mom offering them cake. It's really you have to give them an understanding. And you won't be there, so they have to have some kind of understanding about it to make the decision on their own because they will have to make these decisions eventually.
Julie: Yeah, definitely. I'm definitely on your side. I think Chris is a little bit more totalitarian about it.
Jessa: So is Ben. To me, once in a while, they do choose the cookie over the, I don't know, bag of raisins or something like that, which is fine. But, yeah, it's learning. I don't want to create this a dictatorship in my household, I guess, is the best way I can describe it. Because I've seen that and a lot of parents they get a lot of retaliation from it because they're kids. They want to be like the other kids.
Julie: I just don't want her to be one way with me and then a different way with the rest of the world, you know what I mean?
Jess: Yeah. That's exactly right. I mean, our boys, we've dealt with it for a little while because one of our boys would go in and sneak food. Because he felt like it was not a conversation. It felt like this was the rules and if I ever, ever want to get this then I have to break the rules because there's no other way. So as a parent, you sometimes have to reevaluate the situation. And what do you desire more, a truthful honest kid who's going to open up to you or do you want a kid that's going to feel like he's living in this cage and the only way he can get anything is if he has to lie and cheat about it? So you really do have to evaluate the situation.
Julie: Yeah. Exactly. It's different. I mean, this ties in to how -- We've come up against this and I'm sure you guys have as well. How do you deal with -- You guys have a great following. You've got all these people that listen to the podcast and it takes them a long time to -- They get lots and lots of great information. I know you guys probably have, as we do, we have family members who they're not listening to the podcast. They're not reading the articles. They're not paying attention. How do you approach about this idea about -- Do you try to steer them in the right direction? Or how much do you try to steer them in the right direction?
Jessa: Well, yeah. For the most part, I feel like our family is pretty good about it. They honor and respect how we are raising our kids, you know what I mean, how we are raising our kids. So a lot of times, we don't get a lot of -- What's the word I'm looking for? Yeah. Ben and I travel a lot too and a lot of times they stay with their grandmas and their grandpas and they know how we eat and the boys know how we eat. So they're pretty helpful that way too, telling their grandma, "No, mommy doesn't like this. Dad isn't going to like this."
They're pretty good about it. But there's times where I want it to be special with grandma. Like I don't want it to just all we. I mean, everybody wants a wonderful memory of their grandparents. And so there are times when I'm just like, "Yeah, just enjoy your grandma. Enjoy your time. Whatever she is offering the cousins, you are welcome to have. It's your choice." Because I don't want it to just all be -- I want my mom to be able to enjoy them too. And if her idea of enjoying them is not necessarily in line with what I'm thinking then, to me, it's a battle that's not worth dying for.
This is where Ben and I are really different. Because I'm a pretty laid back person and Ben, he likes everything in its place. We do go back and forth a little bit about this. I'm much more lenient than he is with the kids on stuff like that because, to me, the emotion and the spirit is a bigger concern, I guess, than the physical. I think they both are intertwined in a lot of ways, but like I said, when we're talking about kids, I'm like, "What do you want? You want a kid that lies and cheats because he feels a certain way or do you want a kid that's educated and can make a decision?"
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It's a conversation. It's not necessarily rules, rules, rules. It's the same thing with my mom and his mom. They really, like I said, they do really try hard to comply with what we do at home. And so a lot of times it's not an issue. But when there are special birthdays with their cousins and things like that, like we're going down for Easter and I guarantee you there's going to be chocolate everywhere, I mean, I will let them participate in egg hunt and I will let them have a piece of candy afterwards.
Because that's part of living in the culture of the Casebolt-Greenfield family. That's just part of the culture. I feel like we're changing that culture a little bit, but that it won't always be that way. But for now, that is the culture and they are people we love and so, yeah. I'm not opposed to having a taste every once in a while.
Julie: Yeah. No, exactly. And I think, I mean, you have to make -- We just have to make those decisions not only in the moment but, I think, one of the things that's different between Chris and I is thinking about in the long term. Is this really going to be the be all end all of her health, right?
Jessa: Yes. I agree with that. Things change, opinions change, information changes all the time. And, I guess, that's why I feel like in a lot of ways, you can't get so hung up on it all because chances of it being changed is pretty likely.
Julie: Yeah, exactly. I concur with that as well. I think it's never healthy to be so married to a dogma that if it does change you're going to there with your pants down.
Jessa: I've seen that. I've been to a conference where I told somebody that I was like, "Well, yeah, I eat sprouted wheat and fermented grains and stuff like that." And you would have thought I had crucified their Christ because they just flipped out on me. It becomes almost like a real legend and I'm just like, "Oh my goodness."
Julie: Yeah, Chris and I were just having this conversation this morning about a different version of the same thing. It's bizarre and we're really about people educating themselves and doing the work for themselves. And a lot of times I'm working with clients and they say, "Can I have this, that and the other?" And I'm like, "I don't know. Can you?" If you eat it and it makes you feel badly then I don't want you to eat it. But if you eat it and it's helping your health and you don't have an allergy to it, those kinds of things. You have to figure this stuff out for yourself and you have to work for it.
Jessa: Yeah. And to believe that everyone is, everything works, like one thing works for everyone is just, I feel, naïve. Because we all come from very different -- Our characters are from very different parts of the world. Some tribes in Africa live on sweet potatoes and rice. And they are healthy and fine. Whereas some of us grew up on meat and potatoes and it's totally different. I feel a lot of it is where your heritage is at and your background. It can definitely sway how certain foods affect you.
Julie: Yeah. How do you guys approach the cooking responsibilities? I think that's one thing that's really difficult, a tough pill for people to swallow especially young families who are just getting started in all of this, that they have young kids and they're both working. They're like, "How am I supposed to eat this way if I literally have 45 minutes when I get home, that I can do this?" What are some of your best advice for people to get them in the kitchen and cooking?
Jessa: What we do here is I do a majority of the cooking, A, because I love to cook and, B, it's part of my job in a lot of ways, is I teach people how to do a lot of the fermenting and all that stuff. I'm in the kitchen a lot. And I enjoy it. But I do understand that people are like, "Well, I have a full time job and my kids are going to soccer and Suzie is going to ballet and all this stuff." I definitely understand that. What I generally do is I do my grocery shopping on Saturday morning and then in the afternoon we prep a lot of our foods that we have to have for on the go, like your snack food per se, or whatever you want to call it. A lot of that stuff gets done Saturday afternoon.
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I make flaxseed crackers and energy little balls for the kids for school and slice up their carrot for the first three days in the week, just little preparatory things that make the rest of my week go a little bit smoother and it's not as panicked. And I do most of that on Saturdays. And a lot of times I include my kids into that. And I know that really young kids, obviously, can't do that. But you can get really creative. And kids love to help in the kitchen.
Actually, what I found with our boys is if they've prepared it or help prepare it, they are much more likely to try it or eat it and want to. Because they made it. They're convinced that it's going to be amazing. So getting them in the kitchen is really, really helpful. Like I just started out with can you wash the bell peppers and peel off the stickers? That was the starting point really. And then now, they just turned seven and last year, for Father's Day, they woke up and scrambled eggs for Ben, cracked them, turned stove on, oil the pan. I mean, I didn't even know they were doing it.
Julie: That was awesome.
Jessa: But they watch and they see and they participate. And so, their help is huge and I know it's going to become even greater especially as the years go on. I think, really taking the time with your kids and teaching them the basics is really, really valuable long term and important for them long term. But most of our prep is I had to pick a day, spend the day, most of the day in the kitchen and then get all of our quick foods finished. And I have my meals planned in that day too.
I try only to cook about three dinners a week just because -- Like the rest of you, our kids are going here and there after the whole school day is over and I don't have time. So I do a lot of cooking in bulk so that we can reheat it the next day so that I don't have to cook dinner all the time. So cooking large amounts of things especially soups and sauces and that kind of stuff is really, really smart idea because they all freeze super well and literally you just have to pull things out in the freezer and you have a meal ready to go.
I tell people cook in bulk and have a prep day. You got to have a prep day because you're going to sabotage yourself if you don't have things ready to go. So that's really, really important. And some people have a hard time swallowing that pill but I'm like it's just a reality. I mean, unless you want to mail order all your meals, that's what you're going to have to do.
Julie: So that whole shifting of priorities. Again, it also takes practice. It's not something that you're going to wake up tomorrow and just be really fluent in the kitchen. I think it's going to take your time and start very simply, keep your food really simple, keep your meals really simple, and get more experimental and adventurous as you get more comfortable in the kitchen.
Jessa: Right, exactly.
Julie: It's a learned behavior. Very few people have a natural innate ability to just step into the kitchen and figure it out.
Jessa: I'm actually going through something like this right now. I have a girlfriend who suffers from severe autoimmune disorder and/or disease, whatever you want to call it. And I was friends for two years and I go to her house and she's had junk foods everywhere and everything is packaged and I'm just like, "Gosh." I never would say anything but I'm thinking to myself, "You're really giving yourself a huge disservice. You're like poisoning your body on a daily basis."
Because she really can't handle a lot of those foods. And so I finally got her to do the paleo autoimmune book. And I'd been working with her on it. But she's like, "So much time in the kitchen." She's like, "I'm still [0:34:01] [Indiscernible] a lot of the time." And I'm like that's part of the reality. But she's doing such a great job. I'm so impressed with her and happy for her that she's made a huge, huge change in her life. It's been awesome.
Julie: I think it's also just by comparison, right?
Jessa: Yeah.
Julie: If you've grown up and lived the life of -- Especially the last 20 to 30 years. If you grew up in that time, that was the age of convenience. Everything is packaged. Everything is microwavable. There's a shortcut for everything. If this is your first experience of what it's really like to prepare your own food, yeah, it's time consuming.
Jessa: Yeah. But she's had a lot of wins along the way too. She's like, "Oh my gosh, this tastes so amazing. I thought it was--" You hear the word "diet" and you want to automatically assume that it's going to be horrible tasting and painful. But she's learning how to manage her time in the kitchen.
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At first, she was very, very slow in the kitchen. I mean, I had her over to my house a couple of times and we did the work together. And it was fun. But she, obviously, has to go out on her own eventually. She's slow now but I'm convinced -- And I think she's already getting to that point where she's knowing how to use her time better and quicker in the kitchen and stuff like that. Yeah, that is definitely something that has to be learned but the only way you're going to learn is if you're going to do it.
Julie: Yeah, exactly. It's like muscle memory too. I feel like I could probably make six nights worth of meals with my eyes closed now.
Jessa: Yes.
Julie: That's a long time coming. It was just a rote generalization. It's just doing it over and over and over again. I don't really use recipes anymore because they're all in my head and you just figure out what goes with what. So I think that you just get faster as you go.
Jessa: Yeah. And it's nice to have meals that are tradition, like a weekly traditional meal. Like foods that we always have on a certain day of the week. And, A, it's easy on me because I'm making this meal. This is the meal I make every day this way. But it's kind of nice. It's a family favorite so everybody just goobers it and it's easy on me because I don't have to think a whole lot. My kids generally help me with that meal because they know how it's made. That's nice to have something. It doesn't always have to be a wow meal every night.
Julie: No, it doesn't. That's a huge thing I think that a lot of people need to realize. And especially when you keep it simple. It's really hard to go wrong with really fresh ingredients. You can't really screw those up, unless you overcook them. But that's another story for another time.
Jessa: That's another podcast.
Julie: What about the kids' lunches? I mean, people ask all the time for ideas about what to send with their kids for school. Do your kids ever -- They've grown up eating this way so this may not be a big problem for them, but a lot of kids, if they've transitioned to eating this way or eating butter, a lot of times their biggest frustration or pain point is that they want to eat, they feel that they don't want to be different or eat different things.
Jessa: I can actually relate to this a lot because even when I was growing up, my mom, everything was homemade. Because, A, it was inexpensive then to make everything homemade. And, B, I mean, like I said, my mom, she was a stay at home mom and that she really loved, enjoyed doing that stuff. But I remember going to lunch table and pulling out my amazing chocolate chip cookies that my mom would make twice a week and they were like the best chocolate chip cookies on the face of the planet and being so embarrassed because they didn't come in a fancy package.
And they didn't have all these colors and stuff like that. And I remember being embarrassed about that. And so, with our boys, when I pack lunches for them, when I make them their treat for their lunch, I actually go through a little extra effort to make it look special, you know what I mean? Make it a little prettier or a little fancier, whatever that may be. Just so they think that it's something that's super special in their mind.
They're really visual. Kids, they see the packages and all that stuff. So just going through a little extra effort to make it look special or wrap it up and make it look prettier or something like that. Just little things. I'm not talking about going crazy but just tie a bow around or something. Or put a little message in there or something like that. Just make it look a little more interesting, more of the sweet stuff. And there's a couple of fruit leathers that are just literally pureed fruit that I will throw in there with them. They are packaged foods but they're really, really pretty unprocessed foods.
There are some stuff like that out there and that's great because kids do like the packaging. They like to feel like the rest, like they're not left out or something like that. So I do have a couple of things like that. Generally just fruit leather or something like that, nothing crazy. But I generally will do carrots, little carrot sticks. And black olive is another good one, which they love.
Julie: I do this too. I can eat a whole can.
Jessa: Yeah. But they love them. They like the green ones too. I don't know a lot of states are different this way but we can get raw cheese in our stores that are like pasteurized, or not pasteurized but pasture raised cow and it's raw. So it's good quality cheese. Sometimes I give them a little bit of that but I will only give that to them if it's raw and pasture raised cows.
[0:40:05]
Also just like apple slices with a little bit of almond butter for dipping to just get them a little more satiating power. Because apples are -- They don't leave you feeling very full. So the almond butter is pretty nice that way. I also do like we -- And this is another thing. We hunt and so Ben gets a deer every year. And so we make deer sausage out of the cured deer sausage and stuff like that. I give them like that sliced up in their lunches too.
It's just like I want to get them a little bit of protein, vegetables, fruit, maybe some good fats in there. And that's a good meal. And a lot of times they can't even finish it all. A, they're just too busy talking. There's a lot to talk about when you're seven. And, B, they just aren't given a big amount of time. At home, I would give them an hour to eat. And they're like [0:41:04] [Indiscernible] like that. They're like 15 minutes. I don't pack huge, huge lunches for them because I know that they're not going to really get through it.
And then a lot of times the food gets wasted and that really bugs me. So, yeah, just making sure that you get a pretty -- There's never any really bread or anything in there because I just feel like that's empty, calories. I want, especially if they're going to school, I want something that's going to feed their brains, that's going to help them think longer and harder. So getting them good protein fats and little bit of sugar maybe from some fruit and some vegetables really. That's what I go for.
Julie: That's awesome. Well, I could talk to you, I think, for hours. Lots of things to talk about. It's been really great talking to you. How can people find out more from you? You, obviously, have a ton of information to share. Where can people learn more about you and about Ben and all the great things that you guys are up to?
Jessa: Well, we have site called the Inner Circle, which is part of Ben's Ben Greenfield Fitness. So if you go to Ben Greenfield Fitness, you can find easily on there. And then I'm currently working on what's called the Healthy Home Workshop where I shoot videos every month and put in like a video magazine format and I teach people all kinds of crazy things from how to feed your dog to barf diet and how to ferment, a lot of things that people have a lot of questions about. [0:42:37] [Indiscernible] sure and I try to make it easy and accessible to them.
Julie: That is fabulous. Maybe we'll see an upcoming episode of how you make dog food out of pork kidneys.
Jessa: I know. It might be on there now that you've said that, you're absolutely correct.
Julie: It's the one organ meat I won't touch.
Jessa: I've never had kidneys. So I was like, I don't know what tastes like. What is the texture like?
Julie: It's not dissimilar to other awful in terms of texture. It's just the flavor is really pungent. I mean, if you think about the kidneys do, yeah. That's pretty much what it tastes like.
Jessa: Oh, yeah, that sounds awful.
Julie: It's weird because it's not really the taste. It's like the weird smell that comes with it. It's like that's what you're tasting.
Jessa: Does it smell like it?
Julie: Yes.
Jessa: One time I got my dog these sticks and they were like from that part of the body. It's like from that. But it literally smell like cow poop.
Julie: That's what the kidneys smells like. My background is in dairy. My masters is in dairy product technology so I had a good time around cows and [0:43:50] [Indiscernible] cow poo and urine and I literally, like I couldn't believe. I made a steak and kidney pie for Chris because he had requested it forever and I finally had the ingredients. And I was like, "Oh, kidneys, perfect. Do it." And I made it and I took it out of the oven and we had to run out of the kitchen because this is not what food is supposed to smell like.
Jessa: That's what it smells like when it comes out the other end.
Julie: Right. And, of course, Chris ate the whole thing and I'm just like, "No, not happening."
Jessa: Okay. So that gives me a good idea because it might get my dog to--
Julie: I hate to cloud people's judgment.
Jessa: I have to send them outside because I could not--
Julie: Yeah.
Jessa: It was disgusting.
Julie: It was probably kidney in there. That's probably what you smelled. Because I never had any other awful that had that kind of smell or odor to it at all. It's usually pretty benign. Liver has a flavor, don't get me wrong.
Jessa: But it's not so off putting.
Julie: Yeah, it's not.
Jessa: You would rather starve than eat it.
Julie: Oh, brother. This is really fun. If you want, you can come back any time you want.
Jessa: Thank you.
Julie: Everybody should go definitely check out Ben Greenfield Fitness site. We've had lots of fun on -- Chris's has had tons of fun on the Ben Greenfield podcast before so check out those episodes if you haven't heard them. And check out Inner Circle to learn more from Ben and Jessa and also look out for Jessa's Healthy Home Workshop. And get more of her wonderful information as often as you can.
Thank you, Jessa, so much and we'll talk to you again.
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