Written by Christopher Kelly
April 30, 2015
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Christopher: Hello and welcome to the Nourish Balance Thrive Podcast. My name is Christopher Kelly. And today, I'm joined by former fitness model and author of the new book The Perfection Myth, Maddy Moon. Hi, Maddy.
Madelyn: Hi. How are you doing today?
Christopher: Great, thanks. How are you?
Madelyn: I'm so good. Thank you for having me on your show. This is awesome.
Christopher: I forgot to mention that you're also the host of the podcast.
Madelyn: Yes, the Mind Body Musings Podcast is my baby. I've been doing that for about a year now. It's still relatively new but I just released my 43rd episode today. So it's been steady. It's been really fun.
Christopher: Excellent. I've listened to a couple of episodes, not as many as I want. I don't know if you suffer from this but I've got to the point now where I get podcast anxiety. I look at the list of podcasts and I absolutely have to listen to that one. And I know I should listen to this one. And I've started listening to some in about 1.5, the speed increase. Some people that works quite well for, and then others it doesn't work for at all. And you're one of those people that you talk quite quickly. But I did go through a couple and they're really, really good. I really enjoyed it.
So tell me, I know you've been asked this question a thousand times but all of my listeners want to know this, tell me how did you -- What was your experience that got you to this point now?
Madelyn: Oh, man. Okay, so I'll try to make this not the super long version, which is really hard to do because it's a long journey. But basically, we'll start back into my -- A lot of times stuff that happens with your mind towards your body starts when you're really young, anywhere between the ages of zero and eight. And I think that my growing up experiences -- I mean, I was raised in the most amazing family ever. I had a glorious childhood.
But I think there were just certain things that maybe like there were some of the TV shows I watched or just like our cultural aspects of perfection, beauty, women being skinny, being perfect, being a certain kind of role. I think those things gotten to my head very young. And as time went on I started to figure out ways to take out my lack of control on life with my body. So whenever I couldn't control things in my life, I was just like, "Well, you know what, one thing I can control is my body and the shape I am, my size, my weight. That's very controllable."
So I started to latch on to diets and I became a vegetarian when I was in high school. And then I became a vegan. And then when I went into college, I started getting really obsessed with running and I started this run five miles a day thing. And then that turned into ten miles a day. And before I knew it, I was just like -- I mean, all I did was schedule workouts and scheduled my diet plan. And then I discovered body building and this is where the story gets juicier.
I discovered body building and fitness modeling and realized that as awesome and ethical as vegetarianism is, I probably can't get the body of my dreams eating like that because of X, Y and Z. I had a list of reasons of why I can't continue that lifestyle, so let's do a complete opposite and go to this. So I threw money at trainers, at products, at supplements, at everything I could just trying to look for that perfect beautiful lean figure that was glamorized in the magazines and shown all around on movies.
And then I entered the fitness world and all my friends became fitness models that could give me more dieting tips and competition tips and post competition tips. I was looking left and right for the best trainer, the person that can put me on the best diet to make me healthy, as what I would call it, and that's what they would call it. They all called it the healthy. They all called it fitness. But as time went on, I very soon started to realize that as I was getting leaner and as people were saying, "Wow, you're so healthy. You're so fit."
The more people noticed that I was "fit", the unhealthier I was really becoming. And it was a very big struggle because the rest of the world wasn't saying, "Madelyn, you're getting really thin. Are you still healthy?" The rest of the world was saying, "Wow, you must be healthy because you are so thin." So it was a really big challenge to be able to call myself out on it but I had a really big wakeup call when certain things started happening to me such my metabolism was obviously getting slower. I was not losing any more weight obviously. I shouldn't have been losing weight. But my digestion was really off.
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And I started having sensitivities to certain foods because I was eating them so much. So I created my own sensitivities from eating chicken three times a day for four months. And then I also created sensitivities from the foods that I no longer allowed myself to eat. No matter if I was eating it every single day or if I never ate it, anything I ate pretty much reacted poorly in my stomach. And I started eating really quickly because food, I hated eating food. It wasn't fun. And I had six meals a day that I had packed in.
Everything around my day revolved around those meal times. I couldn't go out with friends. I couldn't go on dates. At that time I lived in Texas so I couldn't go out in the boat during the summer, first of all, because of my meal times and, second of all, because even when I was at my leanest, I was at my most self conscious. I didn't want anyone to see me in that tiny swimsuit because I did not know what they were going to think about me because I thought I was just so unworthy of attention, of admiration and of love, and all those things.
So I just kept going after this perfect body and staying indoors whenever I could, hiding from social events, hiding from food that wasn't on my plan and hiding from real lasting relationships. So I was digging myself into the ground. I was killing myself very slowly and torturing my body. But more than that, I was torturing my mind. I was not being kind to myself. I was never enough. So I'm trying to wrap this up because I'm going too much--
Christopher: No, this is good. I want you to explain what fitness modeling is actually because it wasn't entirely clear to me before I really sort of looked into this. It's obvious once you've heard those two words together in context. But can you just describe what fitness modeling is?
Madelyn: So to the outsider's perspective, fitness modeling is really just -- It's just someone that's really lean. That's what the rest of the world sees. It's a picture of someone who is really lean and then they're repping either an athletic company or a supplement or, in my case, it was more of the competitions and actual fitness body building. It's so deceptive because when you hear the word fitness, you're probably thinking of the correct definition because of the field you're in. It's having good biomarkers, being healthy.
And healthy, again, is another thing we need to redefine. Healthy means like have your version of balance, your version of happiness. To me, healthy actually means happiness. It's more along those lines today. But, of course, it is to feed yourself food that you know works well with your body, not food that is the latest trend to get you the smallest that makes you look fit. Because fit is to be able to get up off your couch and to enjoy what you're going to do after you get up off your couch.
It's a combination of both things, having the motivation to get up, having the motivation to feel your personal best, to feel awesome no matter if it's going on a bike ride or if it's going for a walk to your mailbox. It's not about comparing what feels good to you versus what feels good to the rest of the world. So fitness modeling really means to be super lean and to be weak, to be really serious, like this is what my conclusion is. Fitness modeling is the most misleading activity.
Because I know there are some people that can do this in a healthy way, maybe. But to get to the level where you're getting people taking pictures of you, they are taking pictures of you because you're selling something that is really hard to get naturally. So you're going to be a great rep for their product or for their supplement.
Christopher: Oh, I see.
Madelyn: Whoever is looking at that picture is like, "Wow, I don't have that. I want that. What do I need to buy to get that?" Because what that person has is something that is not easily -- You cannot get it easily but it's also not easily maintainable. You have to keep using that product or keep doing that exercise routine, keep buying the same old stuff because that modeling shot or whatever is selling something you don't currently have.
And there's a reason you don't have it. Because it's really freaking hard to get. And it's unhealthy and it's like marketing is so, so tricky and I fell into it just like everyone else seems to fall into it. And that's why I've taken this responsibility of spreading this word and helping people understand that what you see in those magazines is not real life. They're getting paid to do that. They're hurting their body to do that. Just because there's a pretty fancy cursive word that says healthy on top of this girl that's super lean doesn't mean that it is.
It doesn't mean that she is not miserable, that she hasn't been dieting for a year to get to that level of leanness and that afterwards she's going to have crazy rebounds where her ankles swell up and she's retaining all the sodium and she's depressed and anxious because of her body shape just completely doing a 180 after that fitness shot is done with, like tangent. But, yeah.
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Christopher: So you followed this distorted model of vision of what some people think health is and you run into a whole bunch of your own health complaint. How did you get out of it? What broke the cycle? How did you get out?
Madelyn: That's a really, really great question. I think, for me, after my second show, because I had one and then I got into paleo for a little bit, but then I took it to the opposite extreme. I still didn't understand. I still used paleo as a diet to make me look a certain way. It still wasn't, just eat in a way that feels good. It was like, "Paleo. Okay, can't have this. Can't have this. I had to have these--"
Christopher: Okay.
Madelyn: And so after that, I actually met this person who really believed in me in a way they wanted to see me succeed in being a coach, because at that time I wanted to be a fitness and diet coach, which is the opposite of what I do today. But at that time, I was like, "I like diets. I want everyone else to like diets." So this guy was like, "I believe you can do this but, first, if you ever want to make anything out of yourself, if you want people to trust you, you can't just be cute, Madelyn. You're cute and you're happy and perky but you need to be fit and sexy. And that's not you."
And so he pulled me into this mirror to mirror to mirror room. It was all mirrors, above you, the ceiling, the sides, the ground. He was pointing out all the areas of my body that needed to get lean. And he was like, "People aren't going to listen to you if you don't fix this area and this area and this area." And I was just like, "Yeah, tell me more. Tell me more. What else do I need to change?" I was dying to have these rules again and self-sabotage.
So after he did that, which put shivers down my spine to think about that story and think of anyone else having to go through that, but after he did that, I signed up for another competition and I got back on the train and this time it was just even more torture. That guy set me off with all those comments. I ended up eating, I think, around 900 calories for about four weeks.
Christopher: Holy cow.
Madelyn: Two hour workouts in the morning and then in the afternoon, just starvation, no relationships, no hormones. Well, obviously, I had hormones but they were very imbalanced and no period, that's what I was trying to say. And just like all across the board. And my body was like, "Enough is enough." I didn't even think that I looked good. I didn't think I was lean. Everyone else said, "Madelyn, you look great for the show." I was so obsessed with being perfect. I couldn't even realize that my body was up to par with where it needed to be for this competition.
It still was not enough for me and it was awful. But in that moment, in that night, I remember the competition was done. I was ungrateful. I was unsatisfied. I was not content. My mom and my sister came up to support me. I was grumpy, tired. I had a photo shoot the next day and I couldn't eat any celebratory meal because I needed to watch out for the shoot. I was just a wreck and I was not happy and I remember just thinking to myself, "Madelyn, if this moment isn't even enough for you then you will never find satisfaction. You will never have enough and you will never be enough."
And in that moment, I decided that something needed to change and it needed to just come from within. I needed to find it on my own. And the very first step for me, and I think this is really underestimated, the power of this is really underestimated for a lot of people, but it was starting with something as simple as gratitude and just being grateful that I have a body to live inside of, I've got a home. Like no matter where I am, I've got this little home to keep me safe.
And it's what's inside of it that I was not -- I wasn't using my soul and my spirit and who I really am to better the world. Instead, I was using my body as a tool for getting people to admire me and feed my ego and make myself feel better because something was lacking and that was obviously my purpose. And so starting with gratitude and just being grateful for my body. I'm grateful for my body. I'm grateful for the stay and for my body. And just starting with thoughts like that helped a lot. And then a lot of other little things started to come into place that I had to consistently work on.
Christopher: So where are you now? You're probably not the person you were back then. What's changed?
Madelyn: Oh my goodness.
Christopher: Everything?
Madelyn: Everything.
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Who I am right now would not have been possible without all of those experiences because that's what I do. What I do now is explain those experiences and explain what it was like on the other side. And if I didn't have that insight then I wouldn't be able to help other people that are still in that same spot right now. Today, I use my body as a vehicle for getting to my computer so that I can Skype with you and talk about this or going to a meet up group to talk about body image and eating disorders in front of women.
And my body is so freaking awesome because it gets me around to places and it helps me to talk. My voice is now my power. My presence is my power. So being able to use my body in this kind of ways is amazing. But with that said, I know now because in the time between having the competitions and the struggles between now and then, a lot did have to be worked on so that food no longer controlled me. Because it came down to how I felt about my body but as we all know food is a tool for how we feel about our bodies.
If I am constantly hating my body, then I'm going to feed myself in a way that exemplifies that whether it's binge eating, it's purging, it's not eating at all. For me, it was dieting and it was having those six meals a day, never have any choices or options, counting macros, being very on top of everything, no wiggle room. That was my thing. I dabbled in other disorder eating habits growing up but my main thing was just what diet can I latch on to and read about, and put information into my brain about.
And so my main thing was to separate myself from food controlling me. I knew that I was not controlling my food and that food was controlling me. So I had to really, really work on intuitive eating and, outside of that, just intuitive living. It can't just be intuitive eating and that's it. You also have to start to move your body in a way that feels good and to sleep in when you need to sleep in and to go to events and get outside of your apartment, your safe little home.
And I had to really challenge myself to make relationships and to sleep in when I needed to and to find that kind of activity that made me feel good because the whole body building routine like going to the gym and doing triceps, chest and back and biceps, that was not serving me anymore because it forced me to look at every individual body part every day and saying, "How can I use these isolated movements to shape this teeny tiny body part?"
And instead, I had moved over to an activity that made me incorporate my entire body all together, not surrounded by mirrors, and just feeling intuitive and moving myself in a way that really felt natural and I thrived in and it wasn't pinpointing one body part and saying, "You need to change. How can I make you change today?" Getting away from the mindset of change, change, change but feel good right now, feel good in the present, be intuitive.
Christopher: Right. So I was interested to know how you help other people and how you assess their goals. Just to give you a little bit of background information, I've been helping people with their own chronic health problems and I know some of them will be familiar to you, things like digestive complaints and fatigue and problems with libido. But there's also the body weight thing is right up there. It's one of the top complaints. And I frequently wonder whether the person's goals are healthy or very well intended.
I've certainly noticed that in myself, the difference for me as a bike racer, say, 146 pounds versus 150 pounds is who gives a crap about how or what that means in the race. But I know that it means that I sleep much better. So I know these goals can be misaligned, the weight thing. So how do you establish that? When someone comes to you, how do you figure out whether their goals are really healthy or well intended.
Madelyn: So there are a lot of different moving parts, obviously, as you know. Every single person is different. Everyone's motivations come from a different place. Everyone's experiences are different. We could be at the same event but we'll see it differently because of our experiences, because of our past. So even if I have two different people and one says, "I want to be a fitness model," the other one says, "I want to be fitness model," it could be coming for a completely different reason.
For one person, it could be because her relationship with her husband really stinks and she's taking it out on her body because that's how she was raised as a kid to control. For the other person, it could be she just wants admiration because she didn't get that from her parents growing up so she wants other people to watch her.
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It's different reasons. So it's figuring out for every individual person what that source is and what that reason is and then one of the next steps that's most important is -- Well, first of all, I asked questions just like why, digging deeper why and why and why. I don't have the answers. They already have the answers. They already know it. So helping every client figure out where their motivation comes from, why they are thinking the way they're thinking.
And then there's a lot of tiny things along the way just like creating your own definitions of, for example, what it means to be beautiful, what it means to be healthy. What does health look like to you? Does it mean to be on a diet, to eat a salad every day? To weight a certain amount? If so, then maybe that person needs to get rid of the scale. Maybe that person needs to get rid of the food scale. Maybe they need to go to the grocery store and buy a whole bunch of different foods and see what happens when they eat foods not on that diet plan.
Just taking little baby steps. I mean, all this doesn't happen at once. But those are a lot of the things that I work on with clients. But there's a big difference, I will say there's a big difference for people who they are ready to change and there are the people that just talk about change. Because you cannot make anyone change their motivation. So the people that come to me, there are some that are, "I'm obsessed with food. Food controls me. But I also still really want to compete in this body building competition."
That person I can't work with because I only want to create excellent testimonials. And the people that come to me and they say, "Well, I really do want food to not control me but I really want to win this body building show more." It's just not going to work. You have to be ready and you have to be open and committed to loving yourself. Because this topic right here, this is a sunset of one. This is a tough one. It takes that rock bottom moment or that aha moment where you realize if the rest of my life continues on this path, I will not be living like the life of my dreams. I will not be fulfilling my individual purpose.
You need that moment in order to have that breakthrough. You really do. I had lots of people that I reached out too before my moment where I was just like, "I'm sick of counting every single macro but I cannot stop because I really still want my food scale. I cannot leave it. That's more important to me." As long as that's more important to me, I'm not going to take the necessary steps that are required in order to fulfill my purpose.
Maybe it's because the time wasn't right yet because everything does happen in divine timing. That's most likely the reason. But you can't rush this kind of process. It takes a lot of courage and timing and intuitive thinking and living in order to get to that place where you're healthy. Healthy is really what matters. No longer am I going to make these stupid sacrifices. I'm no longer going to neglect my husband or neglect dating or neglect my body for the sake of leanness because I know that the fitness industry is lying to me and that health is actually completely different.
Health means to move my body in a way that feels awesome or to eat in a way that feels great to me and gives me energy no matter if it's a cupcake or it's bacon, a chicken breast, broccoli or a donut. Everything has -- No food is good or bad. It all has its own purpose. It just depends on what your body is asking for or what kind of purpose that food is going to serve for you in that moment.
Christopher: So can you give me an example of the sort of person that would come to you now then and how they were before and how are they after? We're not talking about you see some of these courses whereas it's like some sort of weight loss competition where we say this is what the person looked like before and this is what they look now or anything like that. So how do these people look before and after doing working -- So your course is called Body Freedom. How do people -- What is the transformation they go through?
Madelyn: So when Body Freedom attendees come to me, they are exactly how I was. It's a type of person that's having terrible sleep because their body is so stressed out and anxious that it just can't go to sleep anymore. Their period is gone. Their metabolism is shot because they've dieted so much. They keep pinging these fitness experts online, emailing them saying, "Can you help me? Can you help me?" They are still wanting to find a way to love their body and also look the way they want.
[0:24:58]
There's nothing wrong with wanting to change your body in a way that makes you feel better but there's a problem when it becomes conditional happiness, like you're not happy with yourself and with your life unless you're on a diet or unless this or that. People that come to me, they're ready to change. They're ready to finally start focusing on the important things in life. But they need guidance. We all need guidance. That's a fact.
I had to have guidance when I started this process. That's been the change that I want to see in the world. I want people to be able to have this process in an easier way because it does not need to be that hard. I mean, it is hard but it doesn't have to be as hard as we make it out to be, especially when we're going over online and we're on social media all the time and we're comparing ourselves. There's just tiny things that we do in our day to day lives that we don't realize really contorts our mindset towards our body.
So the ideal client, when they come to me, they're just frustrated with food and exercise controlling their life, having to go to workouts, having to miss out on social events because they're scared of the food. But they're ready to change. My course, Body Freedom is four weeks. We go through everything. We talk a lot about food but we do focus a bit on exercise. Because the two go hand in hand a lot and it's about learning how to move your body in a way that feels good.
And then a lot of the focus is on rebuilding metabolism because that is a very important topic especially if you've been dieting for a long time. For example, I actually just released a podcast a couple of weeks ago called How I Got My Period Back by Eating a Sandwich. And one of the things that we go over in the course is how you too can get your period back. Because a lot of my clients don't have it. And it's unfortunate and it's rough, but it can come back. But it won't come back if you keep surprising your body with, "Oh, just kidding. Here's a new diet. Here's more restriction. Here's over obsessing on exercise."
It's about finding that individual balance for you that you actually thrive in. And the program that I do, Body Freedom, it's only four weeks so I always make sure everyone knows that the stuff you learn in the four weeks is the stuff you need to continue for four months. You guys got to stick with it and keep doing it. But in the four weeks, it was my program to be able to give everyone the tools they need to create body freedom, to rebuild their metabolism and to ideally eliminate their food fears.
There's a lot of resources in it. I do customize coaching in it as well, actually. It's one on one email coaching. So I do give a lot of guidance for personalized tools for people. But the basic premises for this program is to help people stop fearing foods. That podcast that I titled How I Got My Period Back by Eating a Sandwich, I mean, I can't even imagine how many people read that and were just like, "Sandwiches? Why is it like that? It's so scary. She ate a sandwich?"
When did we become so just obsessed with what we eat and food that we get scared of sandwiches? Because for me, sandwiches were a food fear. It was really hard for me to even think that I could eat a sandwich ever again and not just wake up the next day and be fat. And to me, being fat meant being unloved or being insecure or feeling not enough. Because my worth wasn't in the right place.
So all these tiny little things come together to help people find their worth in the place that feels best for them, find their passion, be able to wake up every day and to not think first, "What's on my diet today? What's on my diet plan? Do I have all my meals in their Tupperware? How am I going to get meal four to that event that I have to go to today? Will I have to pack my cooler?" Or like, "Oh, no, I have a date in a month. Let me go online and see what meal I can have at the restaurant with this person that I'm going on a date with a month in advance because--"
Christopher: I see.
Madelyn: That's what I used to do. I get so anxious about dates that people would ask me and I would have to get online and see if the restaurant had calorie counters and I could see how much I'd be eating that night and schedule my meals for earlier in the day around that meal. And then I'd reach out to friends or fitness competitors and I'd be like, "I have a date in a month. Oh, my goodness, how am I going to eat leading up to it so it doesn't ruin my chances at looking perfect the next day?"
Those kinds of thoughts are trivial and they may seem like the biggest thoughts in the world or what your world needs to revolve around but it's so not true. You can live in a way where food is the last thing you care about. And even if you eat tacos or if you eat a burger or if you have margarita, you don't have to go on a diet the very next day. You can have another burger and margarita. Finding that food freedom ultimately leads to that happy weight and that place where you're just so happy with life that your weight doesn't determine how you feel about life or how you feel about yourself.
[0:30:08]
But the perk is once food stops controlling you, you're also much more intuitive with how much you're going to eat. You start to naturally eat the right amount for your body and your weight just stays the same. It stays in that happy place because you're just so much more balanced about food. And it's a pretty amazing thing when that happens. It is a miracle when you're so used to thinking that you have to eat a certain way to stay the same weight and you can actually eat however you want and stay at the same weight. Because your body is going to tell you when to start, when to stop. That's called intuition. Ideally, that's where all my clients end up. It's pretty beautiful.
Christopher: Interesting. Some of what you say is completely foreign to me. So the whole, the fitness industry, it sounds kind of weird because you would think we're a bunch of pro mountain bikers, you'd think we'd be quite closely connected with the fitness industry but it's absolutely, the endurance stuff is absolutely nothing to do with this. And I do have a tiny taste of it when I used to work in Walnut Creek. It's quite an affluent part of California. I used to go to the 24-hour fitness there.
And it would be that environment full of mirrors and all the women would be wearing makeup even they were working out, all this kind of stuff. And I would just go in there and do some dead lifts and I'd be looking around and going, "Wow, this is kind of strange. There's a lot of people staring at each other." So I had some sort of idea but really this whole world is quite foreign to me. But I do recognize some of the -- I mean, it's orthorexia is what it is, this kind of this craving structure and not wanting to creep in any way outside of the boundaries.
I still have those for different reasons. So when I changed my diet, my health improved in all sorts of extraordinary ways that were nothing really to do with weight loss. And it just made me feel so much better. And now, I'm addicted to that. It's the same situation. I'm not really planning out meals. In fact, if anything, I plan meals less. But I'd rather skip not eat at all than go to a restaurant that's using industrial seed oils or I'm likely to be glutenized or something like that, which I know is going to make me feel terrible for a week at least.
It's really hard, I think, to try and find that balance. But that's interesting. So is there a way for you to measure success or do you just -- I mean, the weight loss people, it's easy for them to say, "Oh, here's this guy and he lost 20 pounds of fat," or something. But how do you measure success?
Madelyn: Success is when you're happy, honestly. For my clients, they are unhappy. Their happiness is so conditional on finding the perfect diet and getting the perfect weight that they're unhappy because they'll never have the perfect diet or the perfect weight. They're just so controlled by these things. The moment where you realize -- There's the physiological side and then there's the mental side. I'll just say that.
There's the mental side where it's, "I want to go out with my girlfriends and we're going to get drinks and we're going to have fun." And then afterwards, you go home, you watch a movie, you cuddle with your dog, you go to sleep. It's the next day and then you realize, "Oh my gosh, I just went out with my girlfriends and had two drinks and I didn't have to start a diet today. I feel fine." At first, it's scary because it's, "Oh my gosh, what's going to happen? Am I going to lose control now that I'm not obsessed with my diet? Am I just going to wake up and be fat all of a sudden? Am I going to -- What's going to happen?"
But then you're like, "It's okay, it's okay." Breathe in the moment. Think about the amazing memories you just made last night and how you can't wait to have them again. And then think what are the consequences of going out and having fun? What are the consequences of not going out and having fun? What is the opportunity cost? You could have just stayed home last night and not made memories and all your friends go out. What if you keep doing that for the rest of your life and then you die?
I know it's super morbid but at the same time it helps put things into perspective. If you keep up that same pattern of just not going out and meeting people and having fun and keep obsessing over food and staying inside because you're so scared of what you might eat or whatever, then your life is going to be wasted and you're going to die and it's going to be really sad and people are just going to know you for that girl that ate super healthy and didn't hang out with anyone because she was so scared of food.
And no one wants to be that girl. We're given this gift of life and our bodies literally turn to dust. We work so hard on making ourselves look perfect and look amazing that we miss out on the opportunity to meet someone who would love our body just the way it is already, create memories with someone that really just cares about that soul inside of that body and doesn't care about that body.
[0:35:00]
We miss out on opportunities to bond with people and have human interactions and to change someone else's life for the better and to make someone else's life amazing. Because everyone has that power and potential to influence someone out so much that the whole course of their life changes. Because that's how powerful we are as people. But if we keep hiding inside because of food and exercise and missing out on these opportunities, then someone else's life might never be the way they needed it to be. Does that make sense? It's kind of hard to describe it. We as people have so much power and influence just by our presence.
Christopher: Yeah. It's really interesting. So much of what you're saying really resonates with me but for none of the reasons that you think it does. It's not just about -- I mean, it's not about body image. It's all for me. I could care less about how I look naked really but -- That's not totally true but certainly not what motivates me but the feeling good part definitely does. And I pursue that probably too far. When I was much younger and living in London then I was absolutely fine with going to a nightclub and getting home at 6:00 a.m. and then the next day just being thoroughly miserable.
It was worth it because I'd have fun and I would do it all again the next weekend. Whereas now, just even the thought of one glass of alcohol is just completely unacceptable to me and all I think about are the consequences. I guess, I mean, as illustrating here, you get to the point where the pursuit of excellence is actually kind of doing you harm and maybe it would be better to relax a little bit. I think my wife would definitely be happy if I say, "You know what, screw all this tonight. We're going to a restaurant." She would love that, I know she would.
Madelyn: Yeah. Exactly. We have different experiences but this can be taken in the context for what you're going through. Because it may start in the same direction like, "This is fun. This feels awesome. This is new. This is exciting. I love seeing progression." But then it can really slowly creep up on you as it's this or die, like, "This is what I'm doing. I have to do this," fearing the consequences of what if I don't stay on this path particularly tonight? What will happen?
And then sit in it and think about it and think what really will happen if -- Okay, maybe if I have a glass of wine then I'm going to feel a little bit weird tomorrow. And that's probably because you haven't had one in so long. So, of course, it's going to affect you.
Christopher: It would be cheaper to get drunk for the same effect.
Madelyn: For some people, in my area, okay, someone might eat a sandwich because they're so scared of sandwich and the consequence might end up being they don't feel so hot. But that's not because the sandwich is bad. It's mostly because you just haven't had one in so long. So that's very important thing to think about because a lot of the times if you have something you hadn't had in a long time you'll be like, "Oh, yeah, that's why is stayed away from it. That's why it's so bad because it makes me feel this way."
But it could just be because you're a little more sensitive to it now. It doesn't mean it's bad. It just means you've been avoiding it for so long that your body is responding in a way that it wouldn't respond to if you had it a little bit more. So that's an opportunity cost. It's like have that good time, make that memory, enjoy it and we just relax. But you have compassion for yourself and be like, "I am human. This is a human experience. I am enjoying something life has to offer to me and I haven't enjoyed it in a while but I'm going to be compassionate.
I'm not going to feel guilt for indulging or experiencing life and just enjoying this moment. I'm not going to feel ashamed or guilty. I'm not going to feel like I'm a lazy person for taking this night to myself. I don't need to validate it to my social media followers. I can just do it, enjoy it and not care what anyone else thinks and not even judge myself for it." Just have fun. And the next day is a new day. You start over. You do what you want to do. You're intuitive about it. That's how I want people to approach things. It's just we're humans. Let's have human experiences.
Christopher: Yeah. I mean, the other thing I worry about is not just for my own human experiences. My daughter, she's 17 months now so she does whatever the hell she has in her concept of what she can or can't do really. I'm sure we'll quickly get to the point that if I try and inflict my very rigid ideas about what's a good thing to eat or a good exercise or movement or something else to perform or the right amount of sleep for her to get or the right amount of stress for her to be under, then that's going to backfire pretty, pretty badly on me, I suspect.
[0:40:01]
And the more I try and strive for this stuff that I know has been so good for myself that the less you want to do it. Yeah, I think there's kind of what you're saying and what you're teaching people has applications beyond just the idea of a recovering fitness model. So tell me, how can people find out more? I know you've got a new book out. Why don't you tell us about that? Does that cover some of what you've been talking about in more detail?
Madelyn: Yes, definitely. The Perfection Myth, it's a very quick read. It's only 62 pages. It's really easy to get through, just a couple of hours. I definitely skimmed the surface of my fitness modeling days and I do go in a lot on the topics of how I got out of it. So I'm actually working on another book right now that's called Confessions of a Fitness Model. That one will go way more into detail about the crazy things that I did when I was getting ready for this level of leanness.
But in The Perfection Myth, I focused a lot on my desire to be perfect, to look perfect and how I was chasing after something that never existed in the first place, never will exist and how I broke out of that mindset and really just started living a life that I intuitively wanted to live, which was what led me to where I am today. So I just really sat -- And you can get it on Amazon. And other places you can find me, my website is maddymoon.com.
On there, I have lots of free resources. I'm all about giving out a lot of free contents. There's a book called 10 Proven Steps to Stop Any Diet Obsession. So if you're on the diet train, you don't know how to get off, that's a great starting point. And then, of course, my podcast, Mind Body Musings. And my Body Freedom program. I would love to have anybody that's interested in ending your obsession with dieting and exercise and living a more intuitive lifestyle to check out Body Freedom. So, yeah, that's where I'm at.
Christopher: How does that work then? Is that self-paced course or do you spend time talking to you or how does it work?
Madelyn: There are four modules. It's four weeks long. It is self-paced and you have access to it for a lifetime. But for the first four weeks is when you have the email coaching with me. And you get emails from me every other day. And then if you have any questions or you want to talk about anything in particular about food fears or metabolism or exercise or finding balance, then in the first four weeks is when you can just pretty much lay it all out in the table with me and then we'll hash it out together.
But there are the four modules and those are videos. And then each week you have anywhere from one to three exercises to work on throughout the week or worksheets and lots of resources and freebies and stuff that I give out to people. But it is self-paced. You don't have to do it all in the first four weeks since you do have access to it. And there's also a Facebook support group. That's a really nice little place to make new friends going through the same stuff.
Christopher: Cool. Well, I will, of course, link to all this in the show notes for this episode. If you're listening to this in the car or something, you could always come back to the website and get these links. Thank you so much for your time, Maddy. This has been a rather enlightening conversation. Yeah, this podcast is really about -- It has slightly self-interest, the kind of like not so honest motivations in that I get to learn something from the guest. It's not just all about the [0:43:47] [Indiscernible]. I'm not sure everyone has figured this out yet. Yeah, I'm really grateful for that. Thank you for your time. I really appreciate it.
Madelyn: Thank you so much, Christopher. This has been a blast.
Christopher: Okay. Cheers, then. Bye.
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