Written by Christopher Kelly
Oct. 4, 2023
Chris:
Hello, and welcome to the Nourish Balance Thrive podcast. My name is Christopher Kelly. Despite social media being everywhere, it's clear that adults in America face an epidemic of loneliness. This trend comes with health risks equivalent to smoking 15 cigarettes a day. Our guest today has a solution.
Nick Gray is an entrepreneur and best selling author living in Austin, Texas. Nick is the author of The 2 Hour Cocktail Party, a step by step handbook that teaches you how to build big relationships by hosting small gatherings. He's been featured in the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal, and New York Magazine called him a host of culturally significant parties. On this podcast, Nick shares his simple formula for hosting low stress social gatherings to bring people together and create connections. Nick describes the best way to get people to show up for your parties, get your guests talking to one another without being awkward, even for introverts, and why your home is the best place to host an event.
Well, Nick, thank you so much for joining me this morning. How you doing?
Nick:
I'm doing great. Thank you for having me. Happy to talk about parties and networking and all that.
Chris:
Yeah. I'm super grateful to both you for taking the time and then also mutual friend, Jeremy Hendon, for making the introduction. It was such a good introduction and such a good recommendation for your book.
Nick:
He's one of those guys that is just a Penultimate entrepreneur, businessperson, friend, great guy. He is. I'm in a
Chris:
book club with Jeremy, and I picked your book for my next choice. So I'm I'm excited to read that again, and Jeremy's already ready, obviously.
Nick:
Thanks for picking it, man. He gave me such a great review on Amazon. That really meant a lot. It was nice.
Chris:
Oh, that's fabulous. Tell me about the time that you moved to New York City, 2007.
Nick:
I moved to New York having worked in my early twenties. I had zero social life. I wasn't outgoing. I didn't have a lot of friends. I wasn't good at making friends.
And I would go to these networking events or meetups or just even nightclubs or bars. And I would oftentimes leave not having met anyone feeling like I was a loser, like I just couldn't crack the code or that or or that those events weren't meant for me. I was really bad at it. And then what I realized was it's not that I was bad. It's that those events weren't designed to meet new people.
Mhmm. So I decided instead of going to bad events, I'd learn how to host good events, and I made that my
Chris:
mission. And then what happens as a result of you going to more of your own hosted parties, did did you meet any interesting people? Why why would anyone care?
Nick:
Yeah. Yeah. I did. I ended up launching a multimillion dollar business From the relationships I met at my parties, I met and built a huge network in New York City, and then I launched a company. Because I had met so many people, I think that really helped me to turbocharge it.
You know? Funny thing is I talk to a lot of people. Like, I wanna do a launch party for my app or my business or My practice and I asked him. I was like, well, have you hosted anything before this? Do you think people will show up?
And the advice I always give people for a launch party, whether it's a book launch or a business launch or whatever, is, like, host some events beforehand. Build up your list. Get a warm list first, and then do your big launch party. That's a key thing.
Chris:
Well, my interest you know, what piqued my interest when Jeremy first told me about the book was many moons ago, both me and one of my colleagues interviewed a palliative care doctor. His name's Julian Abel, and Julian's in the UK. He's done a ton of work Building Compassionate Communities is the name of his organization. And he published this paper that showed a 14% reduction in emergency admissions in Frome compared to a 28.5% increase in admissions in Somerset. So it's like this amazing improvement in health outcomes from building compassionate communities.
But the question always was to me, well well, how do you build compassionate communities? How do you make friends as an adult? I've always thought that that's nontrivial. You know? Like, I I made a ton of friends at at university, and I and I feel like it might have been all downhill since then.
So
Nick:
You're not alone. Most People are like that. They they peak they're in 2 moments of their life when we make the most amount of adult friends. Number 1 is in university, and number 2 is when you start a new job. So think about it.
Those are new social environments. We're sir you're surrounded by other adults. And then after that, it just kind of Friends through happenstance or mutual friends, you just kinda unfortunately, you end up losing more friends than you make as you get older when it shouldn't be like that. It should be the exact opposite.
Chris:
I I noticed some change now. I've got kids. You know, we've been spending a ton of time this year in our VW Euro van camping. And you pull up a campsite, and you you roll open the van door, and the kids jump out. My son is actually the best at this.
He's he's 5 years old. You hear about 10 seconds after we arrive. Hi. My name is Bieber. What's your name?
And then that's it. They're just Completely immersed in play, and I won't see him again until it gets dark. You know? Whereas adults, I I feel like they need some more handholding. Like, it's a little bit difficult to make friends than that.
Nick:
Kids are the best at this. They really are. They have no ego. They're so willing. Kids don't need name tags.
Kids don't need icebreakers. Mhmm. They don't need that idea of a conversational crutch to go meet somebody new.
Chris:
Mhmm. And can you tell us some other stories of people who have had transformations or nice things happen to them as the result of hosting their own cocktail party.
Nick:
Yeah. I've been playing around with short Video online, whether it's Instagram or on TikTok. And I hosted an event for People that have over a 1000000 followers this past week. And having hosted a lot of events myself, I had a lot of confidence to host that event, and then This seems easy and obvious. Right?
But then I did a really good event, and they all shared my book afterwards, which was a nice win. I'm not saying I hosted it for that reason. Many of my readers there's a woman in Seattle who's a mom. She has 2 kids, and she hosts these things called stroller mom workouts, And that's her business. And she started to host these parties, and she do them every 6 weeks or so.
And she called me after her third one, and she said, Without even trying, my business has more than doubled. I said, how? Why why do you think that's happened? She said, well, by hosting these parties, I'm just kept Top of mind, and people think about me, and they refer me more often. So I thought that was cool.
And I hear tons of stories like that where people get invited to amazing events or they get referrals for their business just by hosting something once every couple months.
Chris:
Mhmm.
Nick:
And do
Chris:
you know of anyone that's gotten a job through hosting a a cocktail party, maybe directly
Nick:
or in Chicago? Yes. Yes. There's this guy in Chicago who read my book, and he said, oh my god. I just got my dream job offer.
I wasn't even looking for it, but It was somebody who attended one of my parties, and they thought of me when they were referring. And then there's another story That's in my book of this guy who lives in Little Rock, Arkansas. And he said that you're not gonna get a job the next day that you host a party. But he got, Similar, his dream job, a a a VP level job about 4 months after he started to host because you're top of mind. People are thinking about you More often, he never would have got that interview if it wasn't for his hosting.
Chris:
Yeah. That's great. Yeah. I think that people like to work with their friends. Right?
So If you're in a position to hire someone, then you you're gonna hire someone that you know, like, and trust versus some rando from The Internet. Right? If even if you are required by law to advertise a job. Right?
Nick:
It's hard with resumes these days and applicant tracking system. Most jobs get dozens, if not hundreds of applicants. And when you can set yourself apart by hosting and meeting someone that way, the old adage of it's not What you know, but it's who you know, there is some truth to that.
Chris:
Yeah. I mean, previously, I worked in finance, and I don't think any of those jobs were advertised. It was always just in network. Right? You you just it was like an old boys network.
I guess you call it nepotism. It's maybe not something that everyone agrees with, but that's just kinda how the world works.
Nick:
Well, it's a high trust, especially in finance. The level of trust and accountability has to be so high that I think people are just more comfortable. They get to see you Not in this zone of applying for a job and who you say you are.
Chris:
Mhmm. And then what about romance? You know, 10 years ago, I met my wife on a dating app called Okay. Keep it. I'm sure you've heard of it.
And Uh-huh. At the time, we were almost embarrassed to admit that we'd met on this app. And, of course, these days, There is no other way to meet a romantic partner. Right? It's become the norm.
I I wonder about all these people that especially men You don't photograph so well. I feel like that's how people are are selecting is just based on images alone. You know? You're gonna Swipe left is based on what you see right in front of you in the picture. But then you you could make a a solid argument that women are beautiful and and men are not beautiful.
They're But they're funny. Right? But how how do you get across being funny on a Tinder profile? And that's really, really hard, but I could imagine if you're a guy at a cocktail party, you're gonna have a lot easier time than you will on Tinder. Right?
But I was wondering is have you seen any of this out in real life. Have you known of anyone meet a romantic partner at a cocktail party?
Nick:
I've talked to both men and women who've read my book with the intention of hosting events To try to meet their future significant other. And they say that a lot of people are frustrated with online dating. People on there who are not very serious. They spend too much time chatting and going back and forth. And hosting an in person event It's both for men and women a way for them to demonstrate themselves in their best light.
They get to be in charge. They get to Surround themselves with friends. If they host at home, they get to show off their house. There are so many benefits if you're looking to use this for dating, That being a host, you get to be the center. You get to be the leader.
It really is the best possible foot I think you could put forward.
Chris:
Well, let's get into the details a bit. You've got this fantastic Nick formula. Can you tell us a little bit about the Nick formula?
Nick:
Yeah. The Nick formula, it's what I learned from hosting hundreds of events, and it's some key pieces that help make a structured event good. A structured event, by the way, is just like a regular happy hour, but you're gonna add a few key things. And I say that that's the Nick Party formula. So that's my name, n I c k.
And I'll tell you what each of those means. N stands for name tags. And now this is a hill that I will die on. Even if you don't like name tags, remember what the experience is like to go to a party where you don't know anyone. So while you may know everybody attending, for the other person, it can be a little off putting to walk into a room where they think there's a bunch of clicks or something like that.
Name tags level the playing field. So name tags, I'm die hard on. So that's n. I stands for icebreakers. I lead generally 2 and a half rounds of icebreakers at my party, and that really serves to give people a conversational crutch To go up and say to someone new.
They're not cheesy icebreakers. That's not something that puts people on edge. I like to use very simple, what I call, Green level icebreakers at the beginning of an event where there's no rapport built up, a super simple icebreaker. I can talk about the ones that are my favorites as well. So that's n I.
And then c c stands for cocktails only. No dinner. It doesn't have to be about alcohol, by the way. I don't drink alcohol myself. But we use that phrase cocktail party because it's a lightweight, easy social gathering to get people to show up and mix and mingle.
Don't do dinners. Dinner parties are too advanced for most people and a little too complicated. Mhmm. And then k in the Nick party formula, k stands for kick them out at the end. The party's only 2 hours long, and you wanna end on top.
You wanna finish on a high note so that people are gonna be happy to come back. And so you can host this on a weeknight when you can do it again and have a lot of people show
Chris:
up. Okay. Well, let's circle around and go through a little bit more detail there. But perhaps we should take a step back even before we get to name tags. Like, how do you go about it?
How do you even get anyone to come to your cocktail in the party? How do you convince people this is a good use of their time?
Nick:
Well, the key piece of advice is you have to start with your core group first. This is where a lot of people make a mistake. They look at their calendar. They hope and pray, and they pick a date, and then they blast it out to everybody hoping that folks will show up. Well, before doing that, I think a better way is to test that date and time with what I call your core group.
These are your close friends, your neighbors, maybe folks you've worked with, people that you would wanna have in your party that if only they showed up, that you would still have a good time. And so what I recommend that you do is you send a text to them and say, hey. I'm thinking about hosting a happy hour on 3 weeks on Monday night, October 19th. And then he used this key phrase. You say, if I do it, would you come?
And you're getting them to make a commitment to say yes. You wanna get 5 yeses before you ever try to reach out to more people. That will give you the confidence to know that people are gonna be there. It's not gonna be empty. And the reason we do that, by the way, is that the number one fear for a new host is can you guess what it is, Chris?
I'm a put you on the spot. What do you think the number one fear is for a new host.
Chris:
The I'll come up with a date. I'll send out the invites, and either no one will respond to the invite Or they'll say yes, and then they don't show up. That's maybe even worse, actually. They say yes, and then they don't show up.
Nick:
That's the number one fear. You're right. It's that nobody will show up That they're so worried that or worse that only, like, 2 or 3 people will show up, and then it's terribly awkward. And so so much of my work, my practice, my book is about Guaranteeing that people will show up when you follow all these steps. So first, you invite your core group, and then you'll invite a larger, Wider audience that I call your great guests to fill it up.
Chris:
Mhmm. I think a lot of what I learned from your book, I already knew, and I figured it out the hard way. Right. So it's but there were still so many great tips for me. And, yeah, that's right.
So if you can get just a couple of your buddies to agree to come over to your house, well, that's already You know there's gonna be a party no matter what. Right? Like, these are not people that are gonna let you down.
Nick:
And then My book is not, like, revolutionary. Just like you said, you figured it out as well. And I just wanted to share some practical, tactical tips from hosting hundreds of events. You seem like a very good host. You probably hosted a ton of events.
And my goal is really to encourage new hosts to say, hey. Anyone can learn how to do this, and Mhmm. Doing it could change my life.
Chris:
Well, I said some of it. Not definitely not all of it. We'll we'll get to that perhaps. But, yeah, I think there's like a social proof, isn't it? Once you've got a couple of your buddies in and then you say to the next people, So and so and so and so are coming over, and I really want you to meet them.
Do do you know? So it's like a bit of social proof going on
Nick:
there. Big time. Big time social proof. I'm thinking about how with this event I just hosted for people who have tons of followers online, I was using social proof to the extreme to say, you know, you gotta come. All these other people are coming as well.
Social proof can really help out. And that's why on the RSVP page, I suggest that you make the guest list public. Mhmm. Many event platforms the one that I use is called Mixoly, but you could use, paperless posts, a lot of Gen z here in America use one called, Partyful. You can set for the event guest list to be public and people can now see that others are there.
And it's that social proof of knowing, oh, yeah. There's gonna be some people here. I'm excited to attend.
Chris:
Mhmm. One thing I hadn't didn't come to me intuitively is when you would hold the party. So I would have almost gone for the weekends because that's when people are more likely to be available. Right? But you you obviously think
Nick:
differently. Yeah. I believe in hosting on easier nights, Green level nights. And I think the best nights now, I've evolved a little bit since my book. In my book, I said Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday nights.
I think Tuesday and Wednesday are the best, And here's why. Thursday, Friday, Saturday nights are socially competitive. Mhmm. And they are busy nights. People get booked.
Other parties get booked. And you're more likely to get a last minute cancellation. You're more likely not to have RSVPs or no shows On a socially competitive night. Friday, Saturday nights, also for many, are there 1 night to go
Chris:
out. Mhmm.
Nick:
And it's gonna be much harder to make people leave, to kick them out on a Friday night after 2 hours. They're like, why are you kicking me out? Like, this is my night out. Right? But on a Tuesday or Wednesday night, it's a lot easier to do that.
So I like doing these on Tuesday, Wednesday nights.
Chris:
Yeah. Mhmm. And have you noticed any cultural differences across regions? So, you know, here in Silicon Valley well, actually, when I first up in Silicon Valley in the early 2000. I worked for a company called Yahoo.
I'm sure you've heard of them. And I think it was a bit of a lifestyle business. You know? It's like a Fee shop in every single building, foosball, people leaving work at 3 o'clock in the afternoon, all this type of stuff. And now people I know who work in Silicon Valley, they work really, really hard.
And, you know, at the end of the day, there's barely enough time for them to get home, have some dinner, get To sleep and get up and do it all again the next day. You know, we just got back from Europe. We spent a ton of time in England and Scotland and in France. And and I think there may be the culture's a bit different where perhaps the pace of life is a little bit slower. But, well, I mean, you're in Austin, Texas.
I mean and I know you're well traveled. Have you have you noticed Prince is here.
Nick:
Definitely for the start times. When I was in New York City, things started a lot later. It was common to have a happy hour of 7 to 9, And that was when I ended up doing most of my parties. It would let people leave. They grab a bite to eat before bed.
Things just tended to start later there. Here in Austin, things start earlier. It's not uncommon for someone to host a happy hour here from 5 to 7 or from 6 to 8. I had a reader recently who read my book in Spain, and, oh my god, they started so late. He was like, no.
I just I know my friends. I'm I I think they even start at 9 PM, which was absolutely boggling to me. But he's still he was able to kick everybody out after 2 hours. And so, yes, Certainly, you can adapt the book to your cultural norms of what would work in your area for your friends.
Chris:
Mhmm. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. In France, you can't even get a dinner reservation until 7:30.
Right? And eve even then, you're, like, kind of early bird That's crazy. In Spain for sure. And then how do you engage people? You you seem to think that this is important for the attendance part.
Right. We just said that the worst nightmare is that you, like, invite everyone to your party. They say yes, and then no one shows up. But you think that you can get the attendance rate well up with Swarming the the the people up before they even
Nick:
arrive. Yes. Yes. Your attendance rate should be over 90% of those who say that they're going to come, who then actually show up. And here's how you do that.
Number 1 is you double opt in for the invitation. So we don't just mass message everybody. The link, hey. I'm hosting a party. Please come.
You send them a message. I have the scripts in my book of saying, hey. I'm hosting a party. There's gonna be some really interesting people. It's on this day, this time.
May I send you the info? If they say yes, then you send them the link to the RSVP. Then they sign up. They RSVP that social proof. They see that others are coming.
And then you're gonna send a series of 3 reminder messages with my special sauce, the last 2 reminder messages have those things called guest bios. And the guest bios, you're gonna write these for half or more of your attendees. It's just a little blurb about who somebody is, what you could talk to them about, what they do for fun. That really helps to drive the engagement of getting people excited to attend your event. And that's the name of the game is keeping your event top of mind.
Mhmm. Top of mind with these reminder messages, you have to market it. Because these days, it's hard to get people to leave their homes, to go out to mix and mingle. But I promise you, having hosted hundreds of them, I know that it'll be a good
Chris:
event. Mhmm. Yeah. I wondered if the guest buyers were a sort of pre icebreaker of sorts. Like, one of the things that maybe generates social anxiety is, like, not you know, I see this person in front of me, but what can I talk to them about?
Well, you've just given me something at least. And then I I guess you do that more actively with the icebreakers during the party.
Nick:
D. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Constantly looking for that conversational crutch to help people go up and talk to more people.
You probably go to a lot of events, maybe even facilitate events where people go deep. My events are not really for going deep. They're to help people mix and talk to as many new people as possible, sometimes 8, 9, 10 different conversations during 1 2 hour event. The reason for that is I want people to build their network of acquaintances because I believe that any big relationship, whether it's Friendship, a business, a romantic situation, they all begin at the acquaintance level. And so I wanna create as many little ones, and I know the best Connections will bubble up and go deep later.
Chris:
Mhmm. And then let's just revisit the name tags thing again just briefly. I I I do recognize that That's very important. One one of my worst nightmares is well, I'm sure everyone experiences this is that you get introduced to someone. They tell you your name just goes in one ear and out the other, and they die.
For some reason, it doesn't stick at all. And then you spend 10 minutes talking to them, and then somebody else you know really well walks over. And they can see you're talking to someone, and my instinct is to, like, introduce them, but I can't remember their name. And, like, that's the kind of I'll see my friend walking over to me. I'd rather go to the bathroom and climb out the toilet window than go through that, like, realization that I've not listened to it.
I mean, what it's kind of almost like a big fuck you, isn't it? That, Oh, yeah. You know all those things we were talking about? Or, actually, I didn't care about you because I didn't even remember your day. For me, that generates a lot of social awkwardness.
So I'm guessing what you're saying is you could just zero all of that out just by writing somebody's name on a tag and sticking on the
Nick:
chest. Yeah. Yeah. I think it helps make it easier. I have a whole Chapter that folks can listen to or they can find it on my website about the importance of name tags and why it's helpful.
But that's happened to me. I mean, oh my god. I went to this party that this woman was at. She was a CEO. She had a big business.
I had met her and had a deep conversation with her perhaps The year beforehand, she sees me across from Nick. Oh my god. Her arm's out, and I was like a deer in the headlights. I forgot her name. She could Tell that I forgot her name.
It was so awkward, and that could have been solved with just a little name tag. I think it's natural to not remember people's names. Mhmm. And some people can have a 20 minute conversation, remember everything about the conversation, and yet the name goes in one ear and out the other. And that's normal.
That's okay. I'm not gonna give you tips on say their name 5 times
Chris:
or something. I find
Nick:
that anonymous.
Chris:
Think the brain is not wired to remember names. Like, maybe this is a a modern idea that, you know, we have names, and we should use them when referring to each other rather than just, Hey, you or something like that. That's great. So tell us about the icebreakers. Like, there's something about this that, like, kind of makes me sort of squirm and not feel good.
It kind of conjures up memories of sort of childhood games at birthday parties. Farmers in the Den was the big one I can remember hating when I was a child, Being put on the spot, and it's just so much awkwardness. But I think you did a pretty good job of convincing me in the book that icebreakers are are a good idea. Can you can you sum of that summarize that very quickly?
Nick:
I think most people have a bad impression of icebreakers because they've been done wrong and so poorly in the past. And you have a lot of hosts who don't really know how to do icebreakers, and they try to come up with what I say is like a brain teaser question.
Chris:
Yeah. Exactly.
Nick:
They're trying to think of the most creative question. Oh, I'm gonna really stump them with this. I'm gonna get and that's a terrible thing to do for a group that doesn't have Rapport or connection or even for someone who could just be a little socially anxious or shy, you actually wanna use an icebreaker for a different reason, and that's just a signal around the room, sorta like a roll call of who's in the room, what they do, what they like to do for fun. Remember, the purpose is to give people an easy conversational crutch to go say hey to somebody. Mhmm.
So I like doing simple questions at the beginning of the night, Green level. A good green level example would be something like, for example, say your name, say what you do for work or how you spend your day, And tell us one of your favorite things that you like to eat for breakfast. What's one of your go to breakfast items? That's an easy one because everybody eats or doesn't eat breakfast. They can think about it.
They did it that day. It doesn't usually elicit judgment, And it expresses a little bit about their personality. And so that breakfast one, it's fast to answer, shares a bit who we are. It's a little fun. You know?
We have memories or thoughts about breakfast usually. And so that is one of my go to ones. Even I use it at almost all my gatherings because it works. And it's not about their answer. It's not like, oh, we're gonna split the room up, who just has coffee and who has pancakes.
It's that it presses and gets the room talking and gets them comfortable in sharing. And at the beginning of an event, that's what you want. Mhmm.
Chris:
That makes sense. It makes sense to me based on what I've learned from working with behavior scientists, you know, they do things very similarly within behavior change where, You know, you start with this really tiny seed of a habit, and then you you build on it slowly. Like, oh, do you think you can walk to the mailbox? Well, yeah, of course, I can walk to the mailbox. Okay.
Great. Now you're at the mailbox. Do you think you could keep going for another? It's like, that's kinda how you do it. And the what's your name is like that stuff.
But now you're talking. Like, let me just, like, add something slightly more difficult, but not like you said, like a huge, like a question that requires a lot of vulnerability or, like, that's really hard to answer or even things like, what's your favorite book? When people ask me that question, like, my god. I read so many books in the last year. Like, I know I'm gonna have to open up Audible just to even look at the list.
You know?
Nick:
By the way, that question, what's your favorite book or what's your favorite movie? The reason that that's hard is it's subjective and it's definitive. Mhmm. Definitive in the way that as someone who reads a lot of books, you're worried about, well, what is my absolute favorite, and what will this say about me? And so an easy way to modify that as maybe a level 2 icebreaker would be, what is one of your favorite books?
Mhmm. That simple change from what is your definitive, exact, specific favorite to what is one of your favorite Opens up the possibilities and allows people to share a book instead of the book. Mhmm. That makes it much easier for people to answer.
Chris:
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. When I think about book recommendations, they're obviously personalized. Like, if I don't know anything about you or what you're interested in, it's gonna be really hard for me to recommend a book.
Nick:
You're right. That is a good one.
Chris:
Something else I figured out the hard way from the trial and error is with the ice makers. So what happened was I read your book, and then, of course, there's a party coming up this weekend. And then I panicked that, like, think, oh, well, we've been doing it all wrong. Like, how can I retrofit Nick's Formula here onto the thing that we've already started? And, you know, I realized that that would probably be a mistake, but there's there's still some tips here.
And I I did go ahead and do icebreakers during this party, but there were 30 people. It it went really well, and I think overall, people really enjoyed it. Mhmm. But with 30 people, it took quite a long time. So I I think that's probably a mistake.
Right? So would you agree?
Nick:
My book is really written for gatherings that are about, let's say, 16 to 21 or 22 people. Okay. When you do an icebreaker for 30 people, Which I've done. I've done them for 30, 40, sometimes even 50. You as a host have to lead it like you have ants in your pants.
And if you're not cutting people off, then you're not running it
Chris:
fast enough. Okay.
Nick:
And so it's gotta be run fast. And, Usually, I haven't set a timer for myself because if anybody if they're just standing listening for more than 10 or 12 minutes, people start to tune out.
Chris:
Oh, blimey. That is a long time. Yeah. And then just like to revisit that k and the Nick formula one more time. Why do you think it's so important to kick people out after 2 hours so that everybody's having a great time?
Everything's going according to plan. Why would you end it at 2
Nick:
hours? Well, I think it's important because you wanna give people the excuse for those who need to leave. Number 1, 1st and foremost, by hosting this on a Tuesday or Wednesday, the reality is that this is not a blackout crazy party. Right? This is more of a mixer almost than a true party party, crazy party.
You also wanna end your party on a high note. Have you ever been at a party and you, like, you kinda wanna leave? Like, you don't wanna be the 1st to leave, and you're like, it's gonna be a buzzkill if I leave
Chris:
this the last to leave. That's a different kind of problem.
Nick:
Right? And then the last to leave is the host. I wrote a book with the intention to show people how to make hosting a habit. How to make hosting something that it's not just something you do once a year, but hopefully something you maybe do once a quarter or even more. Because really successful people kinda go through life Collecting all these interesting people that they meet, and they surround themselves with the most interesting and inspiring people.
Parties can be a really great way to do that. So, yes, of course, you could never cut the party off. You could go all night till 1 AM. But will you wanna do it again the next day? Mhmm.
Will you be able to do it again? Or will you think like, Oh, that was awesome. But, oh, man. I'm so tired. My house is a mess.
So I wanna give people a repeatable format. Yes. Certainly, there's great parties that never have an end time. But for you on your hosting journey, for a new host, start with the basics, follow the rules. You can always expand later on, but This works, and there's a reason to it.
By the way, one of the things that folks tell me is they get thank you messages from people for ending it on time. Wow. People feel that you respect their schedule and their calendar, and they appreciate that.
Chris:
Mhmm. Yeah. I'm sure. Yeah. Again, you're reminding me of what I've learned from behavior science.
I'll give you a couple of examples. 1 is journaling. Like, lots of people like the idea of starting the day by, like, offloading all of their thoughts and feelings into a a written form. But often the mistake people make is they write pages and pages and pages on the 1st day, and then the next day, it seems like an overwhelming task, and they stop. Or Another one is, you know, I feel like doing this in the gym, and the first thing they do is go to the gym and totally smash it.
And then the next day, they can hardly move because they've got so much To master soreness, I write, but, like, not go back for a long time. So it it seems like a similar principle here.
Nick:
That's it. Oh my gosh. I'm thinking myself, my hamstrings get so sore. And whenever I do my hamstring, I cannot. I'm so inflexible.
So I met a guy at a party yesterday, and I was like, how can I loosen my hamstrings? He was like, well, it's gonna take a little bit of time. I was like, how long? He's like, about 9 months. I said, oh, 9 months.
Chris:
Yeah. Well, let's get into some objections here, if you don't mind, I'm sure you found a way to get around almost all of them, if not all of them. So you, for me, seem extremely bubbly and extroverted, what would you say to people who identify as introvert? So these people quite often, they're not totally opposed to social interaction. It's just that they find it really exhausting, and they don't really wanna make
Nick:
it a habit. What what would you say to those people? I would say take it 1 piece at a time. I would say the best piece of advice I could give is that your first party should be a low stakes affair. Of the biggest mistakes I see from people is they have all these big plans to host a launch party or this or that.
And what they need to do is their 1st party should just be so chill and easy that you're not inviting people that would stress you out if you don't have a good event. And what I mean by that is Potential romantic interests. You're not gonna invite that man or woman you have a crazy crush on to your first party. Mhmm. Now I can invite the big client that you're hoping to land or maybe even your boss to the 1st party.
That's too much. Instead, make your 1st party so simple, And then later on, you can grow in your skills to do more.
Chris:
Mhmm. Grow in your skills. Yeah. I like that. That was my thought on this was that it seems hosting is a skill, and it's not something that comes to us intuitively.
You've just written a manual on how to do it. It's not surprising to me that in the beginning, I'm not very good at this given that I've not read the manual. Right? So in the beginning, it's gonna feels scary because I just don't have the skills, but it's not like I was born a terrible party host, or I just need to practice and get better at it, and then maybe I'd feel differently about
Nick:
it. Yeah. Yeah. Hosting is a muscle, And you have to develop and build that muscle just like at the gym.
Chris:
And you might say the same to someone that has social anxiety. If you ever had anyone that's maybe being diagnosed, right, or or thinks they have social anxiety, host a party, and get no terrible results.
Nick:
All the time. These people love my book because it gives them a framework and almost a formula With from the exact words to say to the 1st people who arrive to a minute by minute breakdown of what you're supposed to be doing. Sometimes social anxiety is just the fear of the unknown, and it's not knowing what to expect or what's gonna happen. These parties do help people who have social anxiety as well because they get an idea. Who's gonna be there?
What can I talk to them about? What's gonna happen at the party? So a lot of my work is about making those people feel more comfortable. Because, look, let's be honest, a party full of extroverts, I don't know if that's a good party. I think it might drive me
Chris:
crazy, personally. I think that's exactly right. Anxiety is this fear of the unknown. You you think the outcome's not gonna be good. Right?
Whereas incitement is there's some unknown still, but you think the outcome's going to be good. Right? Like, that's the difference. And then what I liked about your framework is that perhaps the cure for social anxiety is curiosity. Now if you can get outside of your head and Focus on other people, then that again basically fixes the problem.
It's just that I don't know how to do that. Like, I don't know how to ask people good questions, whereas you've just given me this framework that allows me to do that with the icebreakers and the guest and the guest bios. So, Yeah. I re I really, really like that.
Nick:
Someone once told me or I heard somebody say this. Well, you think you like surprises, but you actually like good surprises.
Chris:
Yeah. Right. Right. Right. That's been done for me involved.
I think that's that's the neurochemical that makes the
Nick:
difference. Right. And then so soon with kids, you asked about that. So I'll include a link For the show notes, but what I found is that it really varies. The advice that I would have, however, is not to just encourage the kids to run around and be free.
I went to a baby shower yesterday, and this is normal, and this is fine, and it's acceptable. But I do notice when I'm at a party where parents bring their kids, They're really only half present in the conversation. The other half, they're kind of mindful of what their kid is doing to make sure that they don't maim themselves. And so what I suggest is to have an adult's party. Create the space for adults to create adult relationships and conversation that can look like hiring a sitter for you or your friends' kids.
It can look like hosting a simultaneous kid party where they have popcorn and watch a movie Stairs, you can rotate shifts, but have it in a separate space to really allow the parents to create those connections.
Chris:
Yeah. I think that's exactly right. The presence is key here, and kids are one of the most distracting things for parents, right, some more so than others. I'm not distracted by my kids almost to a fault, you know, or, like, other people start to, like, step in and get worried because, you know, like, I'm not I'm not doing what they expect them to do. What do you think about so one thing that we've discovered over the years is that if you if you meet somewhere, where the kids have got lots of stuff to do and that they're not There's not gonna be any permanent disfigurement like a playground or or or possibly a beach, like, depending on the beach.
Right? Mhmm. And so if you know, because just keeping costs down because childcare is obviously it's expensive. But what what do you think about that? Do you think that's gonna be enough to allow those adult connections to happen, or is that too much of a compromise?
Nick:
Most of my expertise is really around hosting adult gatherings, so I don't wanna talk too much. I have an article that I'll link that I've done a lot of interviews with people who've had kids and they share what's worked for them. So I'm gonna defer to the existing parents. I don't Have strong thoughts. I mean, I'm thinking of an example where one of my best friends was at a pool party this past week, and not everybody was watching the kids.
He ended up having to jump in the pool And help a kid who's having a little bit of trouble. And he even said everybody there was supposed to be watching, you know, you the The parents are kind of in this half there, half watching the kids mode. So it's super tough, but kids are important. And so I wanna recognize how Important the kids are. I guess I'll just give a curveball, which would be to say, hey.
Look. Let's embrace the kids. Let's think about all the kids' birthday parties that you either host or have to go to. And think about how you can add a little bit of structure to those events such that it makes it easier for the adults to connect. A simple thing for that is name tags.
Using name tags even for the adults at a party really will help for the parents to have easier connections.
Chris:
I mean, you just reminded me there that going to a kid's birthday party where you don't know any of the parents, not their names, anything about them is just completely brutal. It's, like, so difficult.
Nick:
It's the same conversations. Oh, yes. I met you before. These reintroductions.
Chris:
So what about the hosting space? You seem convinced that people's homes are best. You know? Like, I could see that people would be tempted to host in a a bar, for example, because then you don't have to worry about cleaning up and perhaps it's in a convenient location, but you see that the the house is best.
Nick:
I really believe in hosting at home. I think hosting at home is the best solution for 95% of people. And the reason for that is you'll create your connections and relationships faster when you bring someone into your home, it's a very generous act to invite people into your home. And it's much more generous than hosting a bar where everybody has to handle their bills, and it's loud, and there's other people there. You also take people out of the mindset that this is a networking event.
You kinda bring them into your home, and this is a personal connection. So I do feel strongly that that really is the good way to go. Mhmm. I have a whole Chapter about this as well as far as why to host at home and things like that.
Chris:
Okay. Yeah. That's another one of my worst nightmares is a really noisy bar, I think I'm not the best at focusing my hearing towards a particular voice, and all I can hear is tons of background noise. So it's not like I'm not curious about you and what you have to say. It's just that I really can't pick your voice out from the background noise, and it's It's like a situation that I'll avoid for just that
Nick:
reason. You know? It's actually quite stressful to host at a bar where it's very loud and the background noise. I agree with you. And that's why I really recommend people have a little bit of music, but just enough to fill the space, not so that it's hard to talk or how or hard to hear.
Chris:
Right. And then what if my home is very small? Say I live in a studio apartment.
Nick:
For a studio apartment, I think that even some of the best parties can be in a small home or small apartment. That feeling of being crowded and packed into a place, it is helpful. Right? Because you're there's a sense of energy and excitement that's driven. In the event that you have such a small space for example, one of my readers lives out of a van, like, in he travels very much like maybe you and your family were.
He found that he could get, like, a co working space or, like, a cafe or a coffee shop that would allow them to gather. The best thing to remember, though, is that you actually don't want people to be sitting down. Mhmm. A lot of people say, oh, I can't. I was at home and I don't have enough chairs.
Actually, you kinda wanna remove the chairs. You want people standing for those who are able because it's easier to approach people and easier to Start and end the conversations when you're standing. Mhmm. So just remember, sitting down is it's almost the kryptonite to a really good event where the purpose is to make new friends. I
Chris:
like that you just headed off my next question. Yeah. So so I've been traveling around in my VW Euro van. There's barely enough room for me and my, my family of 5, right, let alone anyone else was clearly not having a party in the van, but you think that that's okay. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
Choose a space.
Nick:
Sorry. Exactly. Just what you said. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Don't feel that you have
Chris:
to down the script tonight.
Nick:
Yeah. Don't feel that you have to have I mean, I worked with a woman who's like, I really wanna host a housewarming party, but my kitchen's not gonna be finished, And, like, my countertops aren't gonna be ready for another 3 months. Mhmm. And I said, well, let's just host it now. You know, you're into your house.
Let's not wait 3 months. You'll be shocked That you can still host a great event, and in fact, celebrate the fact that the countertops aren't ready yet. A lot of people wait to host until the perfect moment, and by that time, The opportunity is lost more often than that.
Chris:
Yeah. I think that's also generally true in life. My other favorite example of that is when people wait for the perfect time to have a baby. You know, like, all these things have be perfectly lined up before they're ready to have a job. But guess what?
Nick:
There's never a good time.
Chris:
It's true. And what about being maybe just my question then so we live up in the Santa Cruz mountains and, you know, like, a couple of hours during the week, like, I'm guessing most people are gonna take over an hour just to be able to Get here from civilization there and back, that is. It's kinda too much. Do you think the best idea then is to would be to pick a space that's more convenient for more central for most people and just have it a little bit less personal just as long as everybody's not sitting.
Nick:
I think that's possible. I think many times people underestimate your friends' want And willingness to come out to your house for a special event. I've talked to so many people that are shocked by how many yeses they get. They say, oh my gosh. People who I never thought would say yes, they said yes.
And the reality is that people actually don't get invited to that many special events like this. Mhmm. To host in your home truly is something special. So even in the mountains of Santa Cruz, I would say you might be surprised.
Chris:
There's only one way to find out. Right?
Nick:
Yes. There's one way to find out.
Chris:
He's already said a little bit about this, but I wanted to talk more about whether or not it there has to be booze. It seems To me, the alcohol is a fabulous social lubricant in, like, very moderate quantities. Right? You can't go have too much. That that'll ruin it.
But in a little bit, I think I think it's really great for this type of event. But what do you think? Do you agree with that? Have you seen people do really well without booze at all?
Nick:
Most of my events don't have alcohol. I may have some basic wine or hard seltzer available for those who need it. The reality is a lot of people feel They need it to kinda loosen up, and so I provide it. But you will be shocked how little alcohol people actually drink at parties like this. We tend to drink the most when we're very bored.
Think about live sporting events where you're seated and trapped, loud nightclubs where you can't talk. Those are the events truly where people almost drink to excess. At a party like this where the purpose is to mix and to mingle, The guests consistently, I hear from people, oh my god. I have so much alcohol left over. People really didn't drink that
Chris:
much. Yeah. That's interesting. And I suppose the same is true of food as well, if I'm being really mindful and really engaged in the conversation, then I'm probably not gonna be in the mood to eat. Like, wouldn't you agree?
Nick:
It's the same thing with food as well. It's the same thing. I consistently hear from people, oh, I bought way too much food. My thing is would rather have someone leave one of my parties hungry rather than bored.
Chris:
That's that's a really good point. And then the food is super simple. Right? So this is definitely something that would put my wife off hosting. She's a fabulous cook, And she loves to mother people with her food, but it's also a lot of work.
And so when I suggest that we have people over, that's the first thing that comes into our head is, like, or what am I gonna cook? Will everybody be happy with this? Will I be happy with how happy they or, you know, like, and on and on it goes. But you're just keeping the food super simple. Right?
Nick:
Food is super simple. They're finger foods. They're snacks. You can have some nuts, some chips, some hummus, maybe some guacamole, some baby carrots. But they're super simple food that reduces and minimizes the preparation.
It's funny you mentioned this because Saturday, I got an email from a woman who said, I actually read your book as a feminist mantra. And she said, I used to think that I, as the woman, had to do all the work For party preparation and planning and food, and I would slave away in the kitchen. She said, your book gave me the permission that I didn't have to do that. It was more about the people than about the food. And it really helped to equalize the duties with me and my husband to be more 5050.
And I said I said, wow. I've never thought about that. That's
Chris:
cool. That is cool. And I guess maybe one of my last my penultimate question is, Have you thought of a way to turn this into a business? You know, like, I watched your TED Talk on Museum Hack, and I thought, wow. I'm amazed that you made that into a business.
Right? And yet you
Nick:
did. Right?
Chris:
Yeah. And so I I wonder if you've got some equally Imaginative and creative way that you're gonna turn hosting cocktail parties into a business.
Nick:
You know, a lot of people are like, you should start a name tag company because you slow size them so much. I say, the numbers don't really work out. The short answer is, you know, the number one goal that I have is to try to help people host their 1st party. Learning how to host events changed my life, And I'm lucky that I sold my last company as I made a little bit of money that I don't have to think about that right now. And so I'm trying to focus on how many people can I get to actually host to party because there is something of a loneliness epidemic happening, whether you call it a friendship recession or just the decline in friendships that we've seen over the last 5 or 10 years Mhmm?
As we're more digitally saturated, it's harder to get people to go out and make new friends. That's my goal. That's my mission of what I'm trying to do. I do get hired by these big companies to help them with, like, huge conferences, and I think I'm pretty good at that. I'm still figuring that out, but I haven't exactly figured out a business.
I'm looking, but I don't see something that That I'm like, oh my god. I could charge a lot of money for this and give Mhmm. 10, 20 x results.
Chris:
Mhmm. You've not thought about just putting the whole thing on rails with software. Right? You've got invites and templates and Shopping lists and, like, there's a little bit of stuff to think about and coordinate, and maybe you need Trello or something to keep track of it all. But
Nick:
not social media. I tried to make it easy ish for somebody to do it, like, within the book. There's exact, checklists, you can print out the PDFs. There's a little bit of work that has to go into this as a host, and I'm not exactly trying to make I want the host to show a little bit of investment, and I don't know that doing a software thing would make would really be the Ten x improvement that I could help people on.
Chris:
No. I don't think it'd be 10 x either, but yeah. Still a
Nick:
Slightly. I think you're onto something with reducing the friction And to make it a little bit easier, I think there's something there. Mhmm. I mean, I just want people to think about how their life could be different if they had a different group of people. What what would life be like if you were being invited to a lot of events, if you could make connections with anyone easily that you met?
Think about all the people that you might meet 1 on 1 happenstance, and then you just never go out to dinner with them. You say, oh my gosh. We should totally go out. We should totally have dinner, do a double date, or something. But the reality is we don't actually take action on that.
And Mhmm. Cocktail parties, I Found as a really good funnel to put those people
Chris:
into. Well, I think that's fantastic. Yeah. I think what I should do is I should link to Everything that you've mentioned in this podcast, including your fantastic website that has many excellent resources, party dot pro. And then maybe I should also put a link to the Nourish Balance Thrive forum in the show notes, and maybe I'll get a challenge Going there, what do you think about this?
Like, I said, we should just get our listeners to okay. So who's gonna host a party? And then we've got a nice discourse forum where we can talk about, you know, our challenges and where we're gonna host and what's going on, I think I think that would be a really nice the accountability thing, I think, might be quite nice.
Nick:
I feel so strongly about this. I mean, it's why I do these podcasts, and I almost give my book away because I know how much of an impact it can make. I know it's scary to think about. And I also know that having helped over 400 people now host their 1st party, I've seen and heard just about every excuse, and I know how to deal with it.
Chris:
Yeah. I know. You've you've been absolutely fantastic in in taking on all of my awkward questions. Thank you. Well, the name of the book we've been discussing is The 2 Hour Cocktail Party, How to Build Big Relationships with a Small Gathering by Nick Gray.
Nick's website is party dot pro. Is there anything else you'd want to direct people to, Nick?
Nick:
I'll send some links if you're gonna do the show notes on the article of how to host a party with Kids, how to plan a networking event, some research on that friendship recession. I'll send those over, and we'll include them in the show notes.
Chris:
Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking the time. Thank you so much,
Nick:
Nick. Thanks, Chris. More parties.
Chris:
Yeah. Definitely more parties.
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